The Ford on Bay

[Steve]

Plus, they didn't include the block that Hyatt controls in the RFP. Doing a convention center without that block wouldn't make a ton of sense in my eyes, when you (with that block) could literally attach it to the hotel.

[thelakelander]

They basically set up that RFP to not leave a chance of having a convention center proposal selected.

[Ken_FSU]

As someone who works with the city to drive leisure and convention travel, it is maddening to hear that a convention center is being kicked down the road up to a decade because a single person doesn't believe that Jacksonville can feasibly operate a million square foot convention center the size of which we don't need to begin with.

It's equally bewildering to hear that the DIA thinks that the timeline would be drastically different had a mid-sized, residential and retail development a mile down Bay Street materialized.

It's almost like we should consider something more market appropriate utilizing some of the existing infrastructure already in place...

[Ken_FSU]

PDFs of the six proposals:

https://buildupdowntown.org/ford-on-bay-01-05-2022

[thelakelander]

Here are the rankings:

1. Carter (141.75)
2. Mid-America (121.50)
3. Related (119.50)
4. SouthEast (110.75)
5. Silver Hills (97.00)
6. VanTrust (93.25)

[thelakelander]

PDFs of the six proposals:

https://buildupdowntown.org/ford-on-bay-01-05-2022

Thanks! Looking through the link now. I must say, I do like the old wharf district layout being incorporated into the Carter site plan.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ Sorry, I am not inspired by any of them other than Southeast.  Surprised Carter's Hardwick is ranked first given all the negatives posted on the Jaxson  .

I only found cost estimates in 4 of the 6 proposals so I don't know if that counted much in this round.  But of the 4 I found, they ranged from about $99 million to $254 million.  Yes, Southeast was the highest but it shows you get what you pay for.  Given the Four Seasons is estimated at $400 million along with similar numbers for Lot J, I think the $254 million for this centerpiece of Downtown looks very fair.  The superior design will add far more value, in my opinion, to the City than the incremental cost over #1 Carter, at $140 million.

I know Fields doesn't think much of Southeast's waterfront but, as I said before, I would give them a chance to "play with that" and show us some alternatives.  I bet whoever the winner is will be doing the same given DIA's history of allowing changes after the choice is made.
And, I am focused on the total development, not just one element, and Southeast wins, hands down, in my book.

Does anyone know how the scoring system works?  I wonder what they are weighting the most and if they have the "right" weighting to begin with.  Who are the scorers?  Where does "community input" enter this picture?  I fully expect to be disappointed by the answers to these questions based on the outcomes of the past (see the Times Union site, etc.).  Just sad....

[jaxoNOLE]

Mid America at #2 pretty much explains how downtown is turning into nondescript suburban boxes. Confirmation the DIA isn't currently equipped to plan for our prime riverfront spaces if that Mid America design is being given a chance.

[thelakelander]

I'll post the scoring criteria this morning. They were ranked by a lot more than coming up with pretty graphics.

[heights unknown]

Here are the rankings:

1. Carter (141.75)
2. Mid-America (121.50)
3. Related (119.50)
4. SouthEast (110.75)
5. Silver Hills (97.00)
6. VanTrust (93.25)

Southeast is my first choice; just like the look and it would be something different on the Jax waterfront. Carter (Hardwick) is my second choice. Looks plain old plain old, seen it before (nothing new), but I'll take it if they ditch Southeast (or others) in favor of Carter. After southeast and carter, none of the others move me and I do not like them.

[thelakelander]

Scoring matrix that will be discussed next week. The Southeast proposal appears to have been ranked lower than the other groups on the experience & qualifications and financial proposal categories.

[Steve]

Based on the scoring, it doesn't seem close in their eyes. Carter seems to be significantly ahead here.

[fsu813]

Refreshing that aesthetics/architecture/design was included in the scoring. Hopefully this can be standard moving forward.

Also note, unlike other scoring exercises that have determined winners, this one had more than just two individuals doing the scoring. Another positive.

[jaxoNOLE]

I'll post the scoring criteria this morning. They were ranked by a lot more than coming up with pretty graphics.

Thanks for the scoring matrix! I can understand hesitance surrounding Southeast's track record, especially with the recent Trio design shakeup (again). But going off the matrix, the pretty graphics (Project Development & Design) look to have been the biggest factor in sinking Southeast.

It's concerning to see Mid America beat out everyone but Carter in the Project Development & Design category. Beyond renderings and site plans, I'm not sure what else went into that score, but certainly the visual aesthetics have to be a significant component. It's downright terrifying to see Silver Hills anywhere other than at the bottom as far as design.

In the end, I think they got it right on the winner, assuming their selection follows the scoring. But the down-matrix results still raise questions on what the priorities are, especially in the context of DIA's recent track record. Hopefully their discussion provides some clarity.

[thelakelander]

My guess is that there's a lot more being evaluated behind the term "Project Development & Design" than the graphics portion of each of the proposals. Outside of generating public support, graphics don't really mean much when factoring in those other criteria.