Where is the Center of Jacksonville?

[Lunican]

Google Maps pinpoints the intersection of Bay and Main when you search for Jacksonville.

[JeffreyS]

It is the riverside YMCA. Have lunch there one day you might agree.

[Ocklawaha]

Google Maps pinpoints the intersection of Bay and Main when you search for Jacksonville.

It is the riverside YMCA. Have lunch there one day you might agree.

Cool, but is this where we are, and who we are? Is this where Jacksonville happens? Do we happen anywhere? Where is the heartbeat of the core of our joint social experience?

For example, Beijing, Tiananmen Square. Medellin has San Antonio Station and Plaza, the cross roads of the Metro and heart of the social city.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Jacksonville's Tiananmen Square is the Landing's courtyard.  Its just too bad its closed off from the rest of downtown.  Not finding away to work with Sleiman to get it opened to Laura Street was a huge mistake.

[Ocklawaha]

Funny, for me it's always been Union Terminal - lucky me, I remember when it WAS the social center of Jacksonville as much as MIA or MCO are the social meeting places of the Americas. But today, I'd have to agree the landing or perhaps the river walk on either side, but mostly the Northbank between CSX and Hyatt. The only way to pin it down would be to give it to the Landing.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

You know what Ock...I was thinking about this question a few months ago. I would say the old center is Hemming Plaza...But now I would say Bay & Liberty...or Bay & Market i think??? Whatever street runs to the north & south crosses Bay but is east of the courthouse is the middle of Jacksonville. I think   its Liberty. If you pass the Berkman & JSO you passed the street Im talking about.

Coolyfett, could you be talking about Newnan? The one that you can exit off the Main Street Bridge and then it dead ends into the old City Hall and the Hyatt? Newnan then runs North from the river and west of JSO about 2 blocks. Lot's going on between there along Bay back to about Laura.

OCKLAWAHA

[David]

Dunn avenue!

[thelakelander]

When I think of a center, its something that has to be a destination for a diverse crowd and a place of activity on an everyday basis.  Its also a spot that attracts large crowds for special events.  The old terminal hasn't been that in nearly 40 years.  Hemming's days died in the mid 1980s.  Metropolitan Park is too isolated.  Regarding Bay, all the offices shut down at night and on the weekends.  Plus the density is not there.  That leaves Downtown with one spot.  The one spot that stays open at night, visitors hang out in and residents show up at for special events.  that's the Landing's courtyard.

[thelakelander]

By the way, I found this Philly blooger's post pretty interesting.  It hits on a lot of things that we have discussed on this site over the past few years.

I'm back.

What can I say? We lost. There isn't anything else that can be said, but here are my random thoughts on everything this weekend:

-The Eagles should have won. The Eagles could have won. The Eagles didn't win. The majority of blame must rest on DMac's shoulders. I'm sorry to say that, for whatever reasons - it was his performance which largely contributed to the loss. He had some crucial interceptions that were HIS FAULT, and not the tremendous skill of the Patriots secondary. The one he threw into double coverage towards Westbrook I could have intercepted.

-Jacksonville is an interesting dilemma. Its a second rate town, but it really tried to be first rate. The people of Jacksonville were wonderful - extremely friendly and accomodating. They have more "Waffle Houses" down there than we have pigeons in New York. It should be called Waffleville. Or JacksonHouse. Wacksonvilouse.

-But, on the other hand, the price gouging was sad. I went to eat with 3 friends at a Sabarro. We had about 10 slices of pizza ($4 each), and each got a beer ($8 each). Do the math.

-The taxi situation got better when taxi drivers started to come from out of the city & state (one I met was from Atlanta) to "help". They were absolutely raping customers with their prices. I paid $40 to get from Jax to my hotel room after the game, which was a 20 minute drive. I had no choice - it was 3am, I was drunk and there wasn't any public transportation I could have used. I figured, how many times have I paid $30-40 for a taxi ride from Manhattan to Hoboken?

-My hotel room was, on a scale of 1-10, about a 3. This was a dive of a motel that tried really, really hard to spruce itself up for the Super Bowl. They installed new carpet and new curtains - but that couldn't hide the fact that this place wasn't worth more than $100 a night. Super Bowl price? $300 a night (4 night minimum stay). I compared notes with everyone else in town and very few nice hotels exist in the city. Like I said before, this is a second rate town.

-My seats were ridiculously great. I was sitting field level, with a great view of the action. The (active) crowd was about 65% Eagle fans and 35% Patriot fans - the active crowd comprised about 70% of the people at the game. The "inactive crowd", the media types or old people who sit on their hands the entire game was about 30% of the people there. It kind of drove me nuts when you looked around and knew that there were some people here who really didn't appreciate what they were experiencing - those rich, old bastards who just sat there and didn't clap very much.

-Back to the Eagle to Patriot ratio - we owned that town. The night before the game Jacksonville landing had to be about 80% Eagle fans by my estimates. It was basically like being in Philly - we were razzing their fans the whole weekend. Of course they got to laugh last - after the game. I went to Jacksonville Landing after the game and got drunk with Eagle fans (we were all wearing our jerseys proudly in a sea of Pat fans). I looked around and watched the Pats fans party and just kept thinking - "They really didn't know how to party...." - I would guess that there were like 800-1,000 Pats fans at the Landing (near the main stage). If the Eagles won, I would guarantee that there would have been about 5,000-8,000 Eagle fans going bonkers.

-I got to meet Martin Brodeur at Twisted Martini near the Landing on Friday night. He was hanging out with some friends of Matt and he was very approachable and friendly. My first words were (I was smiling when I said it) "Martin - i'll admit i'm a huge Flyers fan and I hate you." He laughed and I added,"The Devils wouldn't be half the team they were in the last number of years if they didn't have you as a goalie." He thanked me back and I got a picture with him along with an autograph for Fireman Joe. I limited my ass kissing to that moment.

-Kathy emailed me this joke...McDonalds announced a new sandwich. It is called the "McNabb." After you pay for it, the clerk either throws it on the floor two feet away from you, or into the hands of the guy behind you in line.

(3) Jacksonville is a town trying to pull itself up by its bootstraps. They're heavily into some major promotion right now, and the SuperBowl was part of that. The problem with trying to build up a town by relying on promo is exactly what you're seeing: everyone jacks up prices for mundane goods and services. (As opposed to slow-cooking a reputation and building up unique goods and services that, while similarly expensive, don't bring the same resentment.) The quick-fix route rarely works, as GoDaddy.com is about to learn. (They blew their ad budget on the SuperBowl.) The only way to quick-fix a town is for Disney or someone like that to build a theme park (and these have their drawbacks as well) or similar attraction. But if you're a politician, telling your constituents that you're going to spend the next few decades building a town from the foundation up is a ticket out of office. So instead, they opt for sports arenas (which never generate the cash they promise) or high-profile promos.

http://www.philly2hoboken.com/blog/archives/2005/02/super-bowl-rand.html

A few things stand out here.  If we want to be a first rate town, we need better transit....and I don't mean BRT.  Futhermore, I love the comment about the promo.  Quick fixes and marketing without improvements don't get you anywhere.  Instead, focus on the things that make Jacksonville unique. 

Also, here is an example of a big city resident who migrated to a spot in downtown that seemed to be the happening location to be.  It wasn't the temporary circus on Bay and the Shipyards property.  It wasn't Hemming Plaza, the riverwalks or the Prime Osborn.  It wasn't the big NFL tent on the JEA Southbank property.  It was the Landing's courtyard.

[alta]

Some insightful comments by the Eagles fan.  We have lots of potential we have not yet realized. The Landing thrives when we have big events and people visiting from out of town.  I think The Landing and the rest of downtown can coexist and be successful.  We need to really focus on getting the people of Jacksonville to support downtown business when they go to a Jaguars game, political rally, Broadway show, concert, etc.  This would make it more feasible for businesses to locate there.  Does anyone have any data on how much the locals spend before these type of events?   

[ProjectMaximus]

That's the nicest way anyone's ever said we were second rate.

[alta]

True.  We can be first rate though if we change city leadership.

[Coolyfett]

A few things stand out here.  If we want to be a first rate town, we need better transit....and I don't mean BRT.  Futhermore, I love the comment about the promo.  Quick fixes and marketing without improvements don't get you anywhere.  Instead, focus on the things that make Jacksonville unique. 

Also, here is an example of a big city resident who migrated to a spot in downtown that seemed to be the happening location to be.  It wasn't the temporary circus on Bay and the Shipyards property.  It wasn't Hemming Plaza, the riverwalks or the Prime Osborn.  It wasn't the big NFL tent on the JEA Southbank property.  It was the Landing's courtyard.

You know, at the time, I thought it was pretty jacked up that everyone was jacking their prices way up!! It made the Superbowl experience not very enjoyable. I remember clubs that normal charge 10 to get in charging 200-300 just to get it in. Plush was like 400$ to get in.

Also I feel Jacksonville waited til the last minute to do a lot of things. They were still cleaning downtown the week of the game!

I don't know, a Philly fan is going to compare Philadelphia to Jacksonville it is only natural. What if it was the Dolphins VS Giants!!! or Giants VS Jets!!! or Saints VS Jets....I think the fan complaint would be a lot worse. From that blog lake it would the best Superbowl for Jax would be a Packers VS Bills superbowl. those fans would be happy.....I think.

[alta]

A few things stand out here.  If we want to be a first rate town, we need better transit....and I don't mean BRT.  Futhermore, I love the comment about the promo.  Quick fixes and marketing without improvements don't get you anywhere.  Instead, focus on the things that make Jacksonville unique. 

Also, here is an example of a big city resident who migrated to a spot in downtown that seemed to be the happening location to be.  It wasn't the temporary circus on Bay and the Shipyards property.  It wasn't Hemming Plaza, the riverwalks or the Prime Osborn.  It wasn't the big NFL tent on the JEA Southbank property.  It was the Landing's courtyard.

You know, at the time, I thought it was pretty jacked up that everyone was jacking their prices way up!! It made the Superbowl experience not very enjoyable. I remember clubs that normal charge 10 to get in charging 200-300 just to get it in. Plush was like 400$ to get in.

Also I feel Jacksonville waited til the last minute to do a lot of things. They were still cleaning downtown the week of the game!

I don't know, a Philly fan is going to compare Philadelphia to Jacksonville it is only natural. What if it was the Dolphins VS Giants!!! or Giants VS Jets!!! or Saints VS Jets....I think the fan complaint would be a lot worse. From that blog lake it would the best Superbowl for Jax would be a Packers VS Bills superbowl. those fans would be happy.....I think.

Plush $400???  Can you be specific?  What party was this?  Maybe an NFL party during Superbowl week with celebrities and NFL stars with unlimited alcohol and food.  Not comparable to a regular Friday night.  I would argue that Philly is a second rate city that has a declining population and a high taxation.  They are still a much larger and progressive city that has many great attributes but they have issues also.

[thelakelander]

Although its a higher tier American city than Jax, Philly has issues.  Mainly its a built out inner city.  It's Mandarins, Southsides and Argyles are their own separate municipalities.  Apples to apples, our Northside is Philly.  Its a built out city that has been losing residents since the 1950s.  The major difference between the two is that our center city (downtown) is not nearly as vibrant and our core's struggles are masked by our suburb's growth. 

Nevertheless, if there was one thing we could take from Philly, it would be their tax abatement program.  Because of it, their downtown has attracted over 10,000 residents in less then five years.