RE: Homosexual Marriage & Christianity?

[gradco2004]

i have two friends who choose to be gay and that's it.  i respect them just the same as my other friends.  so - i prove your assertion wrong, don't I? 

And I have a few friends who chose to be black, a few chose to be asian, and (believe it or not) one or two of them even chose to be women! I would like to applaud your 2 friends for being able to choose to be gay. I mean gosh, the gays really love all the ridicule, stigma, and inability to marry. It really is such a wonderful life and easy decision.

I think im going to decide to be gay tomorrow for the Rocky Horror Picture Show at the Florida Theatre, and then Sunday Im going to decide to be straight for the Jags game. Its gonna be an awesome and fabulousssss weekend.

Exactly! and that's the problem, people still think that others make a choice, when it's not one

You cant choose your race but you can choose your behavior.  Sex acts are behavior.  Sorry but that argument doesnt hold water.

[1] WTF does sex have to do with marriage? Last time I checked, you don't even have to prove you love a person to marry them. Why do people feel like they are denying sex instead of legal rights? The "unnatural sex" argument is irrelevant as it applies to marriage. There are no requirements set on sexual intercourse frequency or child production in marriage.

[2] Denying marriage equality based someone's choice of sexual pleasure is going too far. This whole the behavior is a choice non-sense is beyond contempt.

[gradco2004]

And also...

The bible is NOT clear about homosexuality (as if that was the litmus test anyway)

The Bible is crystal clear on the subject of homosexuality.  It is absolutely wrong, period. 

Homosexuals like to distort this in order to rationalize their behavior unfortunately.

You should correct yourself on your last point. You meant to say: CHRISTIAN homosexuals, unlike myself.

I can give a rat's ass about the bible or the phone book for that matter.

Can you please post me the "crystal" version of this condemnation? Just for my own sake. I have not come across it yet; possibly due to its non-existence.

[Ocklawaha]

I see this as a tragic bi-product of centurys of church teachings, which in reality are hold overs from Pope Leo of Rome and the Catholic faith at the end of a sword. The slaughter of Jean Ribault and the Fort Caroline settlers did NOTHING to further the cause of the church. Neither will the judgement of people who are Gay.
The bottom line as Christians, we should not be in the business of judging you by our scriptures. Rather we should be loving you by our faith in Christ. This is why I helped in the Lesbian wedding, why I was there for my friend, the lifestyle isn't for me, but who am I to judge them? If the church took as much time helping our Gay community as we do in other area's we wouldn't need this discussion. Food pantrys, clothing, job training, financial help, couples counseling, spiritual growth, HIV screening, Medical help, Bible teaching, open accepting worship services. This is the Great Commission, to go out and reach the world for Christ. We talk to Killers and bus drivers, to executives and homeless, to rich and to poor, to men and to women. We even have ministrys in jails, prisons, and on the streets. But why must the Gay community conform to some imagined standard before we can break bread together? So why is this thread causing an attack on our scriptures or beliefs? Maybe because 90% of Chrisitans have been whacking people over the head with it for years. As I said in previous posts, we should do all things in love. If I have a Gay or Lesbian friend that needs me, I'M THERE BUDDY! Just say the word. Perhaps they will see a spark in my life that they would like to have in theirs, no need to sell out, no need to be UN-GAY... For me it's about Jesus and what he did for the world, and what he did for you and for me. Funny Jesus the man, hung out with prostitutes, drunks, soldiers, tax collectors (who were on the take), sailors, and thieves. He came for us just as we are, not as some church group thinks we should be. In fact one of the oldest and most loved hymns in the church is "Just As I Am"... Long past due for the church to refocus on loving, and get out of the political arena.

Can't have a bar near a church... HUH? Sorry folks isn't that where the church SHOULD BE located?

Put on your Sunday best...Yeah, like the Lord is holding a beauty contest.

See my point y'all, again, it's about YOU and a relationship with GOD, and shame on us Christians if we have caused any of you to despise us our Scripture or our God.

Now if y'all would kindly forgive me if I've offended anyone, we'll all have a group hug at Hemming Plaza...
tomorrow... I'm going to bed!

OCKLAWAHA

[avonjax]

I avoid commenting at this site most of the time now because a few people make it very uncomfortable to come here and express a view.
But I will contribute my 2 cents worth on this topic.
First my comments are mostly for Riversidegator and Driven 1.
I believe that the Bible does teach that Homosexuality is wrong along with many other activities.
And although I am not justifying a lifestyle, keep in mind that in the early days of the Jews and the law covenant with God, adulterers, homosexuals, and even children who were grossly disobedient to their parents were stoned to death. After Jesus' death, Christians were to lovingly try to help those who were leading a sinful life. He never made fun of or treated sinners with contempt but tried to help them.
The reason so many "sinful" people today resent Christians is they condemn and show contempt toward those who lead a lifestyle they don't approve of. And by no means am I saying all Christians are guilty of this.

I know, Riverside Gator that you believe that gay people try to justify their lifestyle by saying they were born that way, but guess what every day the medical and scientific world are discovering that most are. Do you really believe that millions of people would CHOSE to live a lifestyle that is reviled by the majority.
I am not saying that if you believe the Bible and you want to oppose your tendencies that you can't.
Driven1 and RVG, you probably remember the verses in the "New Testament"  that talk about many in the early Christian groups who were liars, fornicators, adulterers, thieves, gluttons, people who overindulged in alcohol, worshipped idols, and yes homosexuals yet they chose to abandon their behavior.
But I feel sure there were some who went back to their former behavior, because maybe it was in their DNA and they found it too difficult to fight.

If you do believe the Bible teaches that homosexuality is wrong, remember it is more a sin against oneself than many of the others, like murder and stealing, so it's much easier to give into those thoughts and feelings knowing you aren't hurting anyone but yourself.

And remember your lustful thoughts toward a woman who is not your wife, means according to Jesus, you have "committed adultry in your heart." I am not accusing either one of you of doing this but believe me I have been with "Chistians," who said "look at the fag," he's going to hell or whatever and then made a lewd comment about a woman walking down the street. The boat is getting full.

I probably haven't earned any points from either side, but bottom line is if you really want to be a good person you must try to show kindness and goodwill toward as many people as you can.

If you disapprove of someone's lifestyle thats your right, but in a world that is filled with so many complex problems, let people make their own decisions about how they want to live as long as it doesn't harm others.
And for goodness sake let them have legal rights. Thats the real issue here anyway.

Also Driven 1, I'm not so sure about your answer about "if people who died before Jesus went to heaven or hell," was really clear, because the Bible states that no one went to heaven before Jesus. The Bible is pretty clear that he was the first to go to heaven. Alot of people lived and died before Jesus was born and resurrected. So I'm not so sure your answer about animal sacrifices cleared things up.
Just a thought

[Driven1]

Also Driven 1, I'm not so sure about your answer about "if people who died before Jesus went to heaven or hell," was really clear, because the Bible states that no one went to heaven before Jesus. The Bible is pretty clear that he was the first to go to heaven. Alot of people lived and died before Jesus was born and resurrected. So I'm not so sure your answer about animal sacrifices cleared things up.
Just a thought

How do you explain how the scriptures say that Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind to be with God?

If you do believe the Bible teaches that homosexuality is wrong, remember it is more a sin against oneself than many of the others, like murder and stealing, so it's much easier to give into those thoughts and feelings knowing you aren't hurting anyone but yourself.

insightful and correct. 

And remember your lustful thoughts toward a woman who is not your wife, means according to Jesus, you have "committed adultry in your heart."

yep.  i have sinned this way before many times unfortunately. 

He never made fun of or treated sinners with contempt but tried to help them.

You are right.  I have been guilty of this in the past, but not so today - by God's grace.

But I feel sure there were some who went back to their former behavior, because maybe it was in their DNA and they found it too difficult to fight.

even though you COULD be right and I MAY even agree with you, we are called to remember that our personal feelings and opinions (which are shaped by man's heart) are kind of irrelevant when held up to the light of God's truth.

[Driven1]

Can't have a bar near a church... HUH? Sorry folks isn't that where the church SHOULD BE located?

excellent point Ock!!  astounding.  we are to be IN the world, but not OF the world.  i wish more could see it this way - as Jesus did.

[reednavy]

DADT needs to go, I agree.  We need to go back to actively discharging homosexuals. 

Yeah, you totally missed my point smartass. Homosexuals are no different when they serve besied hetero and requiering to hide in secret pretty much is absolutely stupid. These high ranking officials and such that say it is wrong and can harm the overall morality of the armed forces by serving openly would hurt the forces and make us look weak. Oh yeah, it'd be a weak showing alright, please. The former Joint Chiefs of Staff, whatever his name is, is seriously stupid for the comments he said.

[The Compound]

It's just so funny the Amendment 2 is even ehre, when gay marriage is already outlawed in the State Constitution. This won't hurt gays as badly, IMO. I'm just relaly worried about seniors and people that live together domestically to save money or just have a companion around to help and such.

I'm just still baffled by how this became such an issue, when it should be a non-issue right away. Just watch, if DADT is repealed, which may happen with Obama, this could set the tone of things to come. I can honestly see down the road, these bannings being done away with by the Supreme Court, some day. I would love for DADT to be repealed, it is such a stupid law. Only the saltiest sailors and retired ones really like it. Most could care less, which is the new Navy now, the old just needs to go(except for traditions, them gotta stay)

DADT needs to go, I agree.  We need to go back to actively discharging homosexuals. 

Real smart there moron, yeah might as well discharge all the women too.

[Driven1]

guys, while i agree that RSG's comment was way off mark, can you really find no other way to show this than base namecalling?

[jacksonvilleconfidential]

Yes, and the blacks, latinos, asians, etc.....

[The Compound]

guys, while i agree that RSG's comment was way off mark, can you really find no other way to show this than base namecalling?

mo⋅ron
1. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.

Just calling as I see fit just as you all are. Youre not the one being attacked in this forum, you guys are doing all the judging and calling your self holy, and all of your opinions lack education and merit.

[jbm32206]

Please, refrain from name calling, it's not necessary to make your point in any discussion.

[Driven1]

guys, while i agree that RSG's comment was way off mark, can you really find no other way to show this than base namecalling?

mo⋅ron
1. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.

Just calling as I see fit just as you all are. Youre not the one being attacked in this forum, you guys are doing all the judging and calling your self holy, and all of your opinions lack education and merit.

You have misspoke.  I have judged no one and called no one a name.  The only ones to have done that are you and reednavy.  Do you not have a choice?  Do you HAVE to use namecalling?  Are we in 3rd grade?

[The Compound]

Please, refrain from name calling, it's not necessary to make your point in any discussion.

Im down to kiss and make up with both Driven and RSG, you in?

[jacksonvilleconfidential]

Wow!! thats sounds hot Compound. Can I watch?