Is a gas tax increase a solution to Jax's funding woes?

[thelakelander]

I'll provide an update. I haven't met with him yet.

[bl8jaxnative]

Ah, yes, that context is important.

Not sure it really changes anything.   Brightline _may_ have those things in Orlando.  At this time, they will not.  And they've committed $5+Billion with it being nothing more than a big giant IF.

I'd venture that FDOT's recent press release was an indication that they need something concrete soon.  Or, put another way, Brightline's inability to have something concrete is a sign of their inability to commit.  But that's another story for another thread.   cheers

Sunrail is FDOT. The plan has always been to get it to the airport and it dates back way before AAF/Virgin/Brightline came on the scene. However, the money hasn't been ponied up yet and won't be anytime soon if it has to be a standalone project. The Brightline connection to Disney actually helps FDOT make that connection on the cheap.

I hope your right.  But I'm not sure what cheap is.  It'll cost Brightline a billion to do Disney springs.   Sunrail was looking at $250M - $400M to get the airport.

My concern is that this gets spun up an way where SunRail's on the hook for $300M + they call it a great deal.  When in reality, it's what it would've cost SunRail without the Brightline crap.


Another question, whatever the deal, can they do it in a way that ensures Sunrail service is not interrupted  [ if | when ] Brighline goes belly-up? 

[WAJAS]

I hope your right.  But I'm not sure what cheap is.  It'll cost Brightline a billion to do Disney springs.   Sunrail was looking at $250M - $400M to get the airport.

My concern is that this gets spun up an way where SunRail's on the hook for $300M + they call it a great deal.  When in reality, it's what it would've cost SunRail without the Brightline crap.


Another question, whatever the deal, can they do it in a way that ensures Sunrail service is not interrupted  [ if | when ] Brighline goes belly-up?

Well, 300 million USD would probably be a win for the expanded route from Disney through OIA to Innovation Way, but I get the basis of your point. It shouldn't cost Sunrail more to do the route with Brightline than without.

[thelakelander]

Sunrail to the airport isn't likely happening anytime soon without Brightline. FDOT will be giving that system to the locals to maintain and operate soon. So I wouldn't hold my breathe on that extension to DeLand or the airport coming soon as a standalone project.

[marcuscnelson]

Jack Rowan had a great guest column in the Times Union today, featuring ethical concerns I wasn't aware of. The whole article is excellent but I'll post the two points of interest.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/2021/05/16/guest-column-ethical-dilemmas-gas-tax/5081120001/

On the ethics front, the gas tax bill removes the requirement that citizen members of the two oversight committees must be free of conflicts with projects funded by the tax. If not placed back in by an amendment, members from construction companies that could benefit from getting city business could become a part of the decision-making process. This is a major red flag that lends credence to some who claim that the Mayor's Office put the proposal forward for underhanded reasons. If the Council wants to prevent this tax from being smeared, they must bring back these protections against conflicts of interest.

The bill also runs into issues with the amount of power that the Mayor's Office receives within this bill. In the committees, the Mayor gets to appoint two members, his appointee to JTA gets to appoint two more members, and Lenny's right-hand man, Brian Hughes, would sit on the committee. This effectively grants the executive a majority on the committees that will have a significant role in dolling out financing and contracts. This would be the most concerning aspect if it weren't for the final part of the committee's composition. Being the man at the helm of the disasters that were Lot J and the attempted sale of JEA (which led to the current federal grand jury investigation), Brian Hughes should not be allowed within a thousand miles of these funds.

[marcuscnelson]

Also an op-ed from Councilwoman Cumber, she's an outright no on the gas tax, also appealing for a referendum.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/2021/05/16/guest-column-why-raising-gas-tax-bad-idea/5080983001/

[thelakelander]

Lower-income residents tend to live farther from work, school and basic needs – like grocery stores -- causing them to purchase more gas. Lower-income residents tend to drive older, less fuel-efficient cars.

Why does it have to be this way? The question I'd have for Cumber and other council members is what are they doing to invest in the infrastructure in lower income areas that will lead to economic development within these communities? What are they doing to enhance mass transit to make long commutes reliable, enabling people the choice of saving money by not having cars? What are they doing so that people can walk to work, a good school or a variety of shops within their neighborhoods? What are we doing to change the inequitable status quo?

[thelakelander]

Retrofitting an automated monorail with automated cars is moving in the wrong direction. Transportation policy experts disagree on how to fund infrastructure, but most agree that adding cars to streets to promote growth and investment is bad policy. That this project is being billed as pedestrian friendly mass transit is absurd. This project will take parking right-of-way on Bay Street that could be used for bike lanes and outdoor café seating. A six-to-eight-passenger vehicle does not, by any rational definition, qualify as pedestrian friendly, mass transit. A driverless car is still just a car. That is the fallacy of the Skyway/U2C.

I do agree 100% with Cumber on this point!

[jaxoNOLE]

Lower-income residents tend to live farther from work, school and basic needs – like grocery stores -- causing them to purchase more gas. Lower-income residents tend to drive older, less fuel-efficient cars.

Why does it have to be this way? The question I'd have for Cumber and other council members is what are they doing to invest in the infrastructure in lower income areas that will lead to economic development within these communities? What are they doing to enhance mass transit to make long commutes reliable, enabling people the choice of saving money by not having cars? What are they doing so that people can walk to work, a good school or a variety of shops within their neighborhoods? What are we doing to change the inequitable status quo?

Also, I'm not sure it's accurate to say our "lowest" income residents are the ones with old cars living far away from their jobs. More likely, our most vulnerable populations have no car and probably live fairly close to downtown, in long-neglected neighborhoods. I'll concede CM Cumber's point that the gas tax is somewhat regressive in nature, but our most vulnerable population won't pay a cent of the tax directly. Quite the contrary, having car owners fund improvements to bus stops and mass transit for people who cannot afford a car is pretty progressive in my mind. Also, minor quibble--some of our richest suburbs are quite far from downtown.

[thelakelander]

One of the most maddening things about the JTA list is that our most transit dependent and vulnerable populations won't directly benefit for the U2C. We could easily slice headways down on many major routes with the amount of funding the tax could generate. Instead, we're going to invest those hundreds of millions on a gimmick that will serve very few.

[marcuscnelson]

One of the most maddening things about the JTA list is that our most transit dependent and vulnerable populations won't directly benefit for the U2C. We could easily slice headways down on many major routes with the amount of funding the tax could generate. Instead, we're going to invest those hundreds of millions on a gimmick that will serve very few.

Ah, but consider, Lake! By spending all this money, people might just decide that Jacksonville is now a desirable place to live, and decide to move here en masse! Rapidly transforming our city into a global leader in digital innovation! You know, because people decide to live in a place based on whether it has, uh, Internet of Things, 5G communications systems, and autonomous vehicles!

Of course, that doesn't mean Nat Ford, one of "our city's most innovative leaders," can't try to sell it based on the hypothetical concept that one day (not even using the same technology we're trying to buy now) some old lady might be able to request an autonomous vehicle to her house using her smartphone (because old people are great at that!) to take her to the supermarket.

[jaxoNOLE]

I detect sarcasm. Are you saying city- run rideshare requiring a smartphone and credit card may not be the most effective mobility solution for low income residents? Where's your vision?   

[tufsu1]

Also an op-ed from Councilwoman Cumber, she's an outright no on the gas tax, also appealing for a referendum.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/2021/05/16/guest-column-why-raising-gas-tax-bad-idea/5080983001/

Pretty sure she's got her timelines confused. BTTF2 is 1989 and American Pie is 1999

[thelakelander]

LOL, I was wondering about that. She probably should have just gone with the BTTF reference.

[Live_Oak]

Also an op-ed from Councilwoman Cumber, she's an outright no on the gas tax, also appealing for a referendum.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/2021/05/16/guest-column-why-raising-gas-tax-bad-idea/5080983001/

Pretty sure she's got her timelines confused. BTTF2 is 1989 and American Pie is 1999

American Pie the song which came out in 1971.