Bike Share Program Proposed for Jacksonville

[blizz01]

Rode through downtown tonight around 10pm and there were literally kids everywhere on scooters.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ Since they are driving on streets, is there any requirement to at least have a driver's license?  It doesn't seem to be a good idea for "kids" to be weaving in and out of vehicular traffic.  Are these viewed as "bikes" instead of vehicles?  Where is the line crossed?  I assume they have some marker lights on them.  Any turn or head lights?

[tufsu1]

Max. speed on the scooters is 15 mph, which feels pretty quick especially on the sidewalk.

That said, I can go faster on a bike, and no license is needed for that.

[bl8jaxnative]

^ Since they are driving on streets, is there any requirement to at least have a driver's license?  It doesn't seem to be a good idea for "kids" to be weaving in and out of vehicular traffic.  Are these viewed as "bikes" instead of vehicles?  Where is the line crossed?  I assume they have some marker lights on them.  Any turn or head lights?

States have laws touching on this sort of thing.  Not just for electric scooters.  Before then they had them for ATVs, mopeds, etc. and would often be based on the size of the engine ( 70 CC, e.g. )  , etc.

[Ken_FSU]

We'll see what the staying power is, but in my opinion, the scooters have been a big win for downtown.

Mentioned it before, but seeing a lot of new faces in the CBD having fun using the scooters recreationally.

Really lifts the overall vibe of the area.

[jaxlongtimer]

This looks like it might be a great solution to urban transit - In less than a year and already outselling Tesla (at the rate of 1,000 vehicles a day) - bigger than a scooter and smaller than a car: https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202103/15/WS604ec703a31024ad0baaf293.html  FYI, GM is a partner in making these so seeing them in the US one day is not out of the question.

Based on their selling price, the City could buy almost 83,000 of these for the price of "updating" the Skyway.  Make these autonomous and put in a "scooter-type" pool for much of the City and it would run circles around JTA's plans.

A mini-sized model from Chinese brand Wuling, the Hong Guang Mini EV, toppled Tesla's Model 3 as the world's best-selling electric car in January, with deliveries exceeding 36,000 in the month, more than those of the Model 3 and Model Y combined.

"The number will be even higher in February," said Zhou Xing, a senior executive of Wuling, a brand hailing from Liuzhou, a city in South China's Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region.

Zhou did not expect such sales a year ago. "I thought it would be around 3,000 a month," he recalled last week.

Even more pessimistic were auto reporters. Scores of them were invited to share their views in March 2020, four months before the debut of the model priced from just 28,800 yuan ($4,427.68) and which has a range of 170 kilometers on one charge.

They argued that it would not sell in big cities where people prefer international brands and the chance would be slim in small towns as well, where people tend to choose gasoline vehicles.

These views were soon proved wrong. Within 200 days, 200,000 Hong Guang electric cars were sold, and the demand continues to soar, not only in China. "Businesspeople from over 150 counties and regions are asking us when we will sell cars there," Zhou said.

Statistics show that the majority of buyers are in smaller cities and towns, and 72 percent of the buyers are those born in the 1990s, and 60 percent of them are female.

If Tesla started its journey as a toy of the rich in California, Wuling's two-seaters (four-seaters are also available) can be regarded as the companions of young women in China's small towns.

The selling points are obvious: they are easier to park and maneuver for new drivers; the driving range, though short compared with others, it is more than enough for them to commute; they can be charged at home; they are cute and affordable.

With most owners being female, Wuling is adding a bit of fashion into its models. "We don't sell them like cars, but more like designer clothes," Zhou said.

Last week, the carmaker unveiled Macaron variants, which are available in three colors and released in cooperation with Pantone, the global authority on color and design.

"It is like a collection for different seasons. In the auto industry, it will take three years or so for a new vehicle to come out. So one of the few things we can do quickly is on color, and they like it," Zhou said.

Wuling is not stopping there. Many of its plans include unveiling co-branded vehicles with entertainment company Disney, and joining hands with other big names like sportswear brand Nike.

"So you see? It is about how you consider the electric car segment. Many followed suit by launching coupe-style sedans and SUVs resembling those of Tesla's. We did a different thing by focusing on the last miles of mobility," Zhou said.

He said the company is also going to launch e-bikes or scooters, adding Wuling does not see itself as a car manufacturer anymore. It aspires to become a creative, popular and boundary-free lifestyle brand.

More articles: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hottest-selling-electric-vehicle-not-163015125.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcollins/2020/12/02/chinas-electric-car-revolution-is-being-led-by-the-hongguang-mini/?sh=7961898332ab

[thelakelander]

The point of transit is to move masses of people in a more efficient manner than clogging the street with more personal vehicles.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ Agree Ennis.  I didn't offer it as a substitute for mass transit other than noting what else we could do with $372 million destined for the Skyway.  Of course, we all know the Skyway doesn't move masses of people.  And, I don't see any other plans by the City to do so with other transit options other than the buses we already have that do an OK job but barely make a dent in moving masses of Jax residents. 

Also, this isn't meant to be in lieu of mass transit but rather in lieu of conventional cars and, thus, it can be a complimentary middle ground between cars and mass transit.  Its advantage in urban areas is it is all electric (non-polluting) and a "micro" vehicle taking up less space where space is often at a premium.

[thelakelander]

The success of the Skyway, LRT, bus, AV, name your desired transit technology, etc. are all going to be dependent on land use. They all will fail to meet any type of ridership forecast if we continue screwing them over on the one thing that generates a ridership base. Skyway and gas tax allocation aside for that specific mode, are you envisioning an environment where there are regulations that don't allow the personal freedom of owning and driving a conventional vehicle? Unless something that dramatic is done, it's hard to envision an all electric micro vehicle concept existing in high demand.

[jaxlongtimer]

The success of the Skyway, LRT, bus, AV, name your desired transit technology, etc. are all going to be dependent on land use. They all will fail to meet any type of ridership forecast if we continue screwing them over on the one thing that generates a ridership base. Skyway and gas tax allocation aside for that specific mode, are you envisioning an environment where there are regulations that don't allow the personal freedom of owning and driving a conventional vehicle? Unless something that dramatic is done, it's hard to envision an all electric micro vehicle concept existing in high demand.

Ennis, I was envisioning voluntary demand for the vehicle for the reasons it is so popular in China:  User friendly, effective, environmentally friendly and cheap to acquire/utilize.  Based on statistics in the articles, these vehicles also appear to have a strong appeal to younger people who already are less wedded to traditional cars than previous generations.  All reasons people might be using the scooters today.  On this basis, it won't be (at least fully) dependent on land use necessarily like the Skyway or other transit modes.  People will buy/use them because they want them.

I know Jacksonville is light years away, but as you know, there are several global cities that are beginning to mostly or entirely ban/limit cars.  As such, it is possible this solution could follow such decisions.  Probably never see that here in our lifetimes due to our relatively low density, a downtown that is treading water at best and non-progressive leadership.

[marcuscnelson]

^ I think the key issue there is that what you're suggesting doesn't really fit what's generally been the trend in America. Smart didn't do well here. Honda, Toyota, Ford, and Nissan have largely axed their hatchbacks in the US market, and GM just introduced a Bolt "EUV." I don't really see how that EV would fare any differently. Americans seem to largely desire the biggest vehicle we can afford, irrespective of the actual utility of buying something of that size. Instead of cheaper vehicles, we're seeing longer loans and the focus put on monthly payments vs overall cost. It's a lot more likely that environmentally conscious younger people here (with the means, mind you) are going to either jump to something like the Volkswagen ID4 or live somewhere they can forego a car entirely. Land use is still going to be critical because it's a question of having to build and maintain the infrastructure for all of those little cars to drive on, and whether they're intended to do so in a compact urban environment or the longer distances of our existing suburbs.

[thelakelander]

I know Jacksonville is light years away, but as you know, there are several global cities that are beginning to mostly or entirely ban/limit cars.  As such, it is possible this solution could follow such decisions.  Probably never see that here in our lifetimes due to our relatively low density, a downtown that is treading water at best and non-progressive leadership.

It just isn't Jacksonville that is light years away. So is NYC, Chicago, LA, Miami, etc. No major city in the US will be mostly or entirely banning or limiting personal cars in their limits anytime soon. That is something that's further out from the realm of reality than JTA's U2C dream for a variety of reasons.

[ProjectMaximus]

We'll see what the staying power is, but in my opinion, the scooters have been a big win for downtown.

Mentioned it before, but seeing a lot of new faces in the CBD having fun using the scooters recreationally.

Really lifts the overall vibe of the area.

Considering your somewhat pessimistic recent post, it's encouraging to see you feeling positive again about, of all things, scooters! 

[Ken_FSU]

We'll see what the staying power is, but in my opinion, the scooters have been a big win for downtown.

Mentioned it before, but seeing a lot of new faces in the CBD having fun using the scooters recreationally.

Really lifts the overall vibe of the area.

Considering your somewhat pessimistic recent post, it's encouraging to see you feeling positive again about, of all things, scooters! 

Gotta take the small victories in Jacksonville 

Working downtown, you get used to seeing the same faces every day.

Since they brought in the scooters, I'm seeing a lot of new faces in the CBD, which is always a net positive. The faces are quite diverse as well, which is another net positive.

The scooters are a little thing, but the streets have been so bleak throughout the pandemic, with worker presence down and vagrant and openly drug-addled presence up, that it makes a big difference to see people riding aroundrecreationally with smiles on their faces. Reminds me of the old William H. Whyte quote, "the best way to handle the problem of undesirables is to make a place attractive to everyone else."

Hopefully while said new faces are downtown riding scooters, they're also spending money in shops, restaurants, food trucks, etc.

[thelakelander]

Yes, as far as I'm concerned, the scooters and new faces downtown are a welcome addition. They are one more activity the public can do in downtown that it can't find anywhere else in Jax.