Is a gas tax increase a solution to Jax's funding woes?

[fieldafm]

Now, to start picking on specific projects not called "U2C"

Lone Star Road extension: (east of Mill Cove to Trednick Parkway): $3 million

First, three million out of nearly a billion-dollar list of projects isn't a big deal. But, this road already exists. At some point in the last few months, Lone Star was disconnected from the western leg of the roundabout.  Even if they removed all the pavement (which I don't think was done) between the closest street (Mathews Manor) and the roundabout, I can't see it costing $3 million for less than 250 feet of pavement. If the project is to, for some reason, widen the new Lone Star Road, between Mill Creek Road and the roundabout, to 4 lanes, the project description should say so.

I noticed this, too. The developer may have built it and rolled it into the CDD or something, but it seemed like an oversight. Also, they list the 5th Street bridge, which is a project I know is currently being designed and is under contract for design and eventual construction under the Department of Public Works. Unless they're proposing supplemental money for a project already underway, I can't imagine why funding would be listed twice.

There's some odd things in this bill of projects...

Those projects are currently 'funded' with monies from general revenue bonds.  In this case, the City would move general revenue bond proceeds to other non-transportation projects, and backfill those current transportation projects with proceeds from the sale of bonds tied to gas tax revenue.  Almost all of the 'new' projects are all on the City's current CIP (like Edgewood Ave road diet), but funding is pushed out into years 3 through 5 (meaning there is no real money to pay for them at this time). The new gas tax bonds (for lack of a better term) would accelerate those 'future' projects by fully funding them.

[Charles Hunter]

I understand the swap from the CIP general revenue funding to gas tax funding.
Can someone please explain the Lone Star Road project?

This leads to another question. How easy will it be to change the project list once the gas tax is passed? Is it just a matter of the annual CIP review where projects can be changed by a majority vote of Council? Or will it be more like the Lot J attempt, which required a two-thirds (?) vote (because that was a mid-year amendment)?

[bl8jaxnative]

For intercity to effectively work, you need effective mass transit to move people around the city without the need of a car.

no, no you don't.   800 million domestic flyers prove otherwise.

Brightline is connecting to Orlando at the airport, not a train station.   No sunrail connection.  No Amtrak connection.   They're spending $5Billion saying that ain't needed.

[thelakelander]

^I was referring to Brightline not flying to cross country hubs. Brightline will have a Sunrail connection at the airport. The platform is already built and this Brightline connection to Disney will be tied in with a Sunrail connection to the airport. Same goes for South Florida via Metrorail and Metromover.

[bl8jaxnative]

Ah, yes, that context is important.

Not sure it really changes anything.   Brightline _may_ have those things in Orlando.  At this time, they will not.  And they've committed $5+Billion with it being nothing more than a big giant IF.

I'd venture that FDOT's recent press release was an indication that they need something concrete soon.  Or, put another way, Brightline's inability to have something concrete is a sign of their inability to commit.  But that's another story for another thread.   cheers

[bl8jaxnative]

In general,pretty excited to see the gas tax raised.  Would like to see it raised more and move 90% of roads out of general fund.

[thelakelander]

Ah, yes, that context is important.

Not sure it really changes anything.   Brightline _may_ have those things in Orlando.  At this time, they will not.  And they've committed $5+Billion with it being nothing more than a big giant IF.

I'd venture that FDOT's recent press release was an indication that they need something concrete soon.  Or, put another way, Brightline's inability to have something concrete is a sign of their inability to commit.  But that's another story for another thread.   cheers

Sunrail is FDOT. The plan has always been to get it to the airport and it dates back way before AAF/Virgin/Brightline came on the scene. However, the money hasn't been ponied up yet and won't be anytime soon if it has to be a standalone project. The Brightline connection to Disney actually helps FDOT make that connection on the cheap.

[jaxlongtimer]

^Brings up a good question.  Why isn't FDOT more involved in rail mass transit planning for Jacksonville?  I only hear about JTA.  Maybe FDOT could take it much further.

[marcuscnelson]

^


The people behind this:



And this:



Are generally not going to put a ton of effort into rail-based transit.

[thelakelander]

FDOT was a partner in the plan to run Amtrak down the FEC a decade ago. FDOT actually put up their share of the cash. As for Sunrail, FDOT isn't paying for it forever. It will soon be the local's responsibility.

[marcuscnelson]

The campaign for the gas tax is officially underway, as "Jobs for Jax".

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-leaders-launch-campaign-to-increase-extend-duval-county-gas-tax

"I understand there are people who are philosophically opposed to taxes no matter what, and I respect that position. But you fund projects with tax dollars. It's time we get stuff down and we get it done now," Curry said.

For JTA, the biggest spending would be $371.96 million for two projects to rehabilitate, expand and retrofit the Downtown Skyway.

The money would pay to adapt the elevated monorail track to support the automated vehicles in JTA's Ultimate Urban Circulator.

The gas tax revenue also would allow JTA to expand the Skyway to Riverside and Five Points, Springfield, UF Health Jacksonville and Jacksonville's Southside medical complex corridor.

[thelakelander]

I'm not crazy about spending that kind of money on the Skyway but I'm for raising the gas tax. Jax investing in itself is way overdue.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ I can only support this if the $372 million for the AV-Skyway is removed.  That is 41% of the total raised and a complete waste of money on a project everyone knows will fail in the tradition of prior failings of the Skyway.

It is unimaginable that sane people can support this project and it will just siphon off what little support there is for Downtown among suburbanites.

[marcuscnelson]

^ Removed is maybe a strong word, I imagine they're not going to cut two cents from the gas tax. And I'm not 100% opposed to using a little bit of the money to play with the technology. But for $378 million they could do a lot of other stuff that would likely be more impactful than the world's first urban self-driving taxi network.

If it were up to me, with my amateur opinion, I'd say use it like so:

• ~$40 million to build an Amtrak terminal per this, perhaps with support from this program if possible. Make sure it's ready for the obvious possibility of Brightline coming to town. Ideally somewhere along the way we'd have figured out a convention center solution.
• ~$20 million to overhaul the existing Skyway (which JTA already seems to be doing). Just to get another 10-15 years out of the existing system.
• ~200 million to build streetcar extensions into the areas already planned for U2C. Long-term, I'd seek to either use vehicles capable of using the Skyway guideways or eventually just demolishing them in favor of the streetcar, assuming that's another ~$25 million (cost of actually building the streetcar connectors would have to come from somewhere else).
• ~$15 million on establishing a RiverLink between Orange Park Mall and Avenues Walk. (I'd like to think this is too much, I'm just not sure. If so, give the money to the next item.)
• ~$30 million to establish BRT (or just better bus service) to places we haven't historically connected, like the beaches via JTB or on Southside Blvd.
• ~$48 million (the remainder) on further AV development, in hopes of it eventually serving as a circulator for places we wouldn't traditionally build heavier transit services in, like master planned communities or college campuses. I've always thought they would be a great replacement for safe rides if they can figure out traffic and pedestrians.

[jcjohnpaint]

Lake, aeyou going to post a story about your meeting with Ford?