Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa

[Pottsburg]

The closest logical spot for a Brightline station in St. Augustine would be the former FEC train station at US 1 and San Marco Avenue, a mile or two north of the historic district. That's one of the larger undeveloped tracts of land in St. Augustine and they already own it. I'm not sure that it would be dramatically different from the sites they are considering in Brevard and St. Lucie.

This building was just leased out for a multi year deal.  Another big parcel of land closer to downtown is right on the water where the track curves. Westside of US1 about the area where Carrera St and Malaga come together.

[Sonic101]

King St needs to be reconstructed, the Palatka-STA State Trail is supposed to go down King St to get to A1A, and Brightline needs a station. W King St could be having a moment if those could all be coordinated.

[acme54321]

You better believe that if Brightline is going to put a station in St Augustine they will figure out how to put it on the parcel that have at the curve.

[fieldafm]

Up the street, the owner of the Broudy's Liquor store has plans to possibly integrate a train station platform into a potential mixed-use redevelopment of the site.

[Pottsburg]

Up the street, the owner of the Broudy's Liquor store has plans to possibly integrate a train station platform into a potential mixed-use redevelopment of the site.

   Brody's can't even make their building nice. They need to worry about other things first. From the picture you can see the lot I was talking about from a previous comment. It's a good spot for a station.

[icarus]

Sad to say, but a St. Augustine Station to me is more economically feasible than a Jacksonville station in terms of ridership.

[tufsu1]

Brightline to Disney - opening in 2025/2026!

[Charles Hunter]

Brightline to Disney - opening in 2025/2026!

Source?

[marcuscnelson]

Brightline to Disney - opening in 2025/2026!

Source?

Looks like this Orlando Sentinel article.

I'm a little surprised that it's going to cost a billion dollars just to build 17 miles across Orlando. That's nearly $60 million per mile.

It's also concerning that a decade ago, $2.4 billion was supposed to cover building HSR between Orlando and Tampa, but now nearly all of that would have only gotten them from the airport to Disney via the convention center.

[Charles Hunter]

Sadly, the article is behind Orlando Paywall's sentinel - or the Sentinel's paywall.

[WAJAS]

They're about to box jack the Cocoa Tunnel, which is one of the most significant milestones for this project. More info and visuals here: https://youtu.be/-9j1mxZFi6c

[thelakelander]

Brightline to Disney - opening in 2025/2026!

Source?

Looks like this Orlando Sentinel article.

I'm a little surprised that it's going to cost a billion dollars just to build 17 miles across Orlando. That's nearly $60 million per mile.

It's also concerning that a decade ago, $2.4 billion was supposed to cover building HSR between Orlando and Tampa, but now nearly all of that would have only gotten them from the airport to Disney via the convention center.

The 170 mile WPB to Orlando segment is currently under construction for $2.7 billion. That's roughly $16 million per mile. However, that's significantly cheaper because a large chunk involves adding capacity to an existing railroad corridor and building new track in a largely rural stretch between Cocoa and the airport. Getting to Disney isn't as easy as the area is significantly more urbanized. On the other hand, the airport to Disney stretch will cost a lot more per mile than Disney to Tampa. Much of I-4 between Disney and Tampa was widened years ago to allow for either rail or more lanes in the median. Some key points from the Orlando Sentinel article:

Brightline disclosed on Thursday its most detailed explanation so far on costs for a corridor between the airport and a Disney World station, preferring a $1 billion route piggybacking on Road 417 through Hunters Creek over a more than $2 billion route along State Road 528 to International Drive.

Passenger service of nearly 17 miles from Orlando International Airport to a station at Walt Disney World's Disney Springs is slated to start in five years, said Brightline's executive vice president of infrastructure development, Michael Cegelis.

By the time Disney station is operating, the privately owned Brightline is likely to be at an advanced stage of constructing more than 68 miles of rail from the theme park to a station between downtown Tampa and Ybor City, Cegelis said.

The choice of following portions of S.R. 417 or S.R. 528 on the way to Disney Springs has been contentious. Hunters Creek residents are worried about noise and vibration from trains running parallel to S.R. 417 and proponents of the S.R. 528 alternative want Brightline to link International Drive's tourism business and Orange County Convention Center hotels with Orlando's airport.

But Cegelis said that from the standpoint of Brightline making extension to Disney financially viable for his private company, the cost and construction challenges vastly favor the S.R. 417 route and discourage attempting to thread a maze of private and public lands between the airport and International Drive.

"We think there are better, other ways to connect the important convention center area and I-Drive to the airport. That needs to happen. It's imperative," Cegelis said. "We think there are other, more efficient ways to do it than an hourly, intercity train."

Brightline is building additional stations within that corridor at Aventura and Boca Raton, and is 50 percent complete in a $2.7 billion extension from West Palm Beach to Orlando's airport that is to begin passenger service in 2023.

The S.R. 417 alignment would cost $1.03 billion, require 342,000 square feet of bridges, involve three private properties and offer efficient sharing of corridor space with a proposed SunRail link between the airport and its main line.

The S.R. 528 alignment would cost $2.1 billion, require 1.9 million square feet of bridges, affect 76 private properties and involve a complex arrangement with SunRail.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-prem-ne-brightline-disney-tampa-route-20210311-ehaxz2gcjjfgtl6mbx2r2be5ye-story.html

[marcuscnelson]

^ Right, my bad forgetting the paywall.

Here are two slides from a Brightline presentation, showing the difference between the two routes:

The 170 mile WPB to Orlando segment is currently under construction for $2.7 billion. That's roughly $16 million per mile. However, that's significantly cheaper because a large chunk involves adding capacity to an existing railroad corridor and building new track in a largely rural stretch between Cocoa and the airport. Getting to Disney isn't as easy as the area is significantly more urbanized. On the other hand, the airport to Disney stretch will cost a lot more per mile than Disney to Tampa. Much of I-4 between Disney and Tampa was widened years ago to allow for either rail or more lanes in the median.

I guess that tracks, but I feel like it's reasonable to assume that the Disney-Tampa portion isn't only ~$550 million at $8 million per mile (assuming the inflation calculation is correct). Especially seeing as Brightline hasn't demonstrated any plan for a station in Lakeland, and aren't electrifying the corridor. Which leads me to wonder if perhaps Rick Scott was right in some way, and Florida HSR would have cost more than expected. Doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't have built it, but I do find it concerning.

But Cegelis said that from the standpoint of Brightline making extension to Disney financially viable for his private company, the cost and construction challenges vastly favor the S.R. 417 route and discourage attempting to thread a maze of private and public lands between the airport and International Drive.

"We think there are better, other ways to connect the important convention center area and I-Drive to the airport. That needs to happen. It's imperative," Cegelis said. "We think there are other, more efficient ways to do it than an hourly, intercity train."

Hasn't there been a proposal for light rail connecting International Drive to the airport? Whatever happened to that? I don't blame them for trying to piggyback on Brightline, but shouldn't that plan still exist? Maybe Val Demings can try to get that into the big infrastructure bill being planned.

By the time Disney station is operating, the privately owned Brightline is likely to be at an advanced stage of constructing more than 68 miles of rail from the theme park to a station between downtown Tampa and Ybor City, Cegelis said.

Which also means they might be in the planning stages for service to Northeast Florida. It's a question of leadership whether we'll be ready for them, or continuing to trip over our own two feet.

[bl8jaxnative]

If that happens, their existing offices near Disney Springs will be linked by Brightline to their new offices.

Say what again?   Why would they spend a 1/2 billion to do that?

Correction- a billion

Hard to see Disney getting a stop w/out Disney investing into Brightline and running the line to Tampa.

In the meantime, Brightline's got $4billion in bonds to pay off.  Folks are going to have to settle for those $20 uber rides

[marcuscnelson]

^ I don't think Disney needs to. This is (I think) the first time there's been a passenger rail plan that Disney has agreed to with any degree of enthusiasm, and it's possible that them being the only intermediate entertainment stop (vs the convention center & Universal or SeaWorld) has something to do with that. Odds are the Disney line is going to be the most profitable on top of that (kinda has to be, seeing as there aren't really any TOD opportunities besides maybe Meadow Woods).