Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020

[Steve]

I don't have the blanket dislike for Curry that many people here do (he's done some good things to go with the bad), but it is pretty crazy how quiet he's gotten here in the last few months with things like the mask mandate (no-showing the press conference), Lot J (deferring all questions to the DIA), the RNC debacle, etc. First one to release a video when things are going good, shrinks away when they're not.

Nate Monroe wrote an amazing piece about this like a month ago. Here's a quote from it:

The question is gaining traction these days, even as the mayor insists he is no lame duck: Has Curry simply given up?

Here's my take - I mostly agree with Monroe. I think Curry has a passion for the political wheeling and dealing that comes with being the party chair. I think he likes climbing the political ladder for the sake of climbing the political ladder. I think he was hoping this and a few accomplishments as mayor would lead him to either the governorship (with Ron "Where's my Apology" DeSantis ascending somewhere in DC) or something in DC for him. Now, his marquee accomplishments that he wanted to happen aren't, and he's left with hard problems: crime, infrastructure, etc., things which there is no Easy Button...especially since his funding source was JEA. He hoped the RNC would put him back in good graces with DC but again...Trump and his people called that off and had to once Sheriff Williams raised the white flag.

So now his choice is to sell his soul to Trump or not, but bottom line is municipal issues aren't going to help him do that either way.

[Wacca Pilatka]

^^ What would be a good thing Curry has done?

Support for the Emerald Trail and the Norman Studios project.
That's all I've got.

[jaxlongtimer]

Shad Khan is no fool, obviously.  I think he, along with Curry, but for different reasons that happen to lead to the same point, wanted this deal to expire.

After COVID, the world, and especially Downtown Jacksonville, isn't going to be clamoring for more office buildings, hotels, convention centers, entertainment complexes and retail.  That was the driver for much of Khan's plans.  It doesn't take a genius to see that much of what might have been a potentially feasible, but always somewhat risky project, is now just beyond the pale of success under the best of circumstances. 

Don't be surprised to see other like projects slow down or get cancelled like Rumell's project and even Durbin Park in St. Johns county.  Why build more when we can't support what already is there?

Residential seems to be the only development with reasonably low risk now thanks to low interest rates and the Fed's priming the pump with hand outs.  If that changes, watch that slow down too.  A big chunk of the economy is not doing well and it has been masked up to now.  After the elections, regardless of who wins, watch the well begin to dry up.  Then, comes the bill for paying for the trillions already laid out.  Not saying it isn't appropriate, but there is no such thing as a free lunch either.

[Ken_FSU]

^^ What would be a good thing Curry has done?

Support for the Emerald Trail and the Norman Studios project.
That's all I've got.

Throwing budget and support behind less sexy projects as well that were the right thing to do ($11 million for the Moncrief cemetery comes to mind, along with big allocations for Northwest Jacksonville in the upcoming budget).

Proactively offering to sign the new HRO, which was a big change from the last go 'round,.

Removal of Confederate statues and willingness to move away from troubled names for public spaces.

Fantastic handling of COVID-19 compared to the rest of the state. Florida's been a train wreck, but Jacksonville was a real leader in many ways in terms of response and testing. Amazing how quickly we stood up a telemedicine plan through Telescope Health and erected so many testing facilities around the city capable of handling large loads. We were also ahead of the curb in antibody testing. Aid distribution was as much of a finely-oiled machine as it could be in such an unprecedented situation as well.

Solicitation of federal grants (especially transportation grants, even if they haven't always gone to the right projects).

[Fallen Buckeye]

Seems silly to try to unload these enormous parcels and go for these home runs all the time. Create a master plan for the area. Break it up into smaller parcels that will be accessible to smaller investors and get these properties back on the tax rolls to facilitate infrastructure improvements that will attract more business investments.

I imagine that we'd be able to attract more interest in a few 2 acre lots across from the stadium than a 46 acre lot. Why is this so hard?

[vicupstate]

Why not just put this project on the shelf completely? If a developer is truly interested they will contact the DIA. Until then, move on to something that can actually be accomplished.  Invest in the Northbank core instead and if that is ever successful, it will make the Shipyards even more desired and profitable.   The 35 million dollars required to make the Shipyards dirt clean would get a half dozen (or more) buildings renovated in the NB core. 

[JPalmer]

When the Jags announced they were playing two games in London in 2020, I wanted to hear a statement from the city saying there would be no Lot J funding if they followed thru...Of course crickets from the St James.

That's when I knew Lenny was a pathetic coward, who will always acquiesce to our loser NFL owner.

When people ask about the whether Khan will move the team, I always counter with whether or not he will still own the team in 5-6 years.  I have heard Tony Khan on a podcast be very cavalier that his father bought a distressed asset from a cash strapped owner.

Much like the former Sea Turtle Inn, the group that acquired the hotel had no intention in investing in better service to make the stay better.  They instead spent all of their capital on improvements to the site in order to increase the value of the asset in then flip it.

The Jags spent their first four years of ownership under Shad Khan's extremely under the salary cap, like the $45M under the cap, which is about what he spent on video boards and pools.  That's money he didn't spend making the team better, just like those sand paper towels at the Sea Turtle this shit will leave you chaffed.

[thelakelander]

Why not just put this project on the shelf completely? If a developer is truly interested they will contact the DIA. Until then, move on to something that can actually be accomplished.  Invest in the Northbank core instead and if that is ever successful, it will make the Shipyards even more desired and profitable.   The 35 million dollars required to make the Shipyards dirt clean would get a half dozen (or more) buildings renovated in the NB core.

Agree 100%. Let Metropolitan Park sit where it is for now, put this whole thing on ice and focus on things that can actually advance the needle for downtown, that also come with a higher ROI for the taxpayers. Consider it a blessing in disguise that this thing as gone belly up for now.

[heights unknown]

Anyone remember when people were wondering which project would break ground first? Shad Khan's Shipyards or Jeffrey Vinik's Water Street Tampa? I guess we now know the answer:

I always understood Miami "slam dunking" Jacksonville relative to building, construction, developing, etc. downtown; but when Tampa and Orlando, and even smaller cities (supposedly) like Fort Lauderdale, Sarasota, West Palm Beach, St. Petersburg, all have vibrant downtowns and are beating the stank out of Jax, that's sad...real sad. It just infuriates me when I visit Tampa and that City is just bursting at the seams with construction; cranes, cranes, cranes, development, construction, bee hive of activity like harvester ants.......and Jax? Dead. I know most of you can and might justify why those cities downtowns are so much more vibrant, dense, and prosperous, but Jax is Florida's largest city. I am mainly talking to the leaders of Jax and its Government, but IMO if you can't live up to it, let it go!

[heights unknown]

Well, this is something. At this point, as much as it sucks to be dealt this hand, I think there are ways of making it all work.
So here's my Magical Plan to Save Downtown:

Finish tearing down the Hart ramps. I've been fine with this, honestly. If anything I wish it would all stay at street level instead of going back elevated. Develop the street-level grid and factor in the Skyway (Or U2C, assuming they seriously build that out as planned).

At this point, I feel like it'd be worth it to just eat the cost of remediating the Shipyards, assuming that the city will get back at least some of that cost from selling it off in parcels as the economy starts to recover. At this point it should be obvious that big master planned developments don't work here, given this is the third time the Shipyards have failed to materialize and the District is still one of our many glorious grass fields. Maybe remediate it by section and sell it, then move on. It won't be a nice master planned area, but it won't be grass next to water either.

Move Metro Park wherever would be suitable, I'm assuming either part of the Shipyards or somewhere else. It'd be nice to have a real signature urban park but I don't think we'd be willing to spend on it. If Khan wants to build his Four Seasons, he can get the land but he should pay to build it.

Tearing down City Hall is one of our worst mistakes, but what's done is done. Let Spandrel build their apartments on the Courthouse block and work with Hyatt to build an exhibition hall on the City Hall block. Now that the Shipyards Convention Center is clearly much further away, we should push ahead to work with Hyatt.

With that accomplished, we could give the Terminal to Brightline to incentivize them to hurry up and bring service to Jax, with the requirement that they also include Amtrak service. We'll maybe also end up with Park Line apartments, so that's a plus.

Dust off the 2015 plan for the Landing and find someone to get it built. Add parking. What's been done is done, we just have to do better. We knew before this happened that it would decimate walkability in the urban core, and the prophecy has come to pass.

While all of those big picture ideas are being worked on, take care of the little things to make the streets more walkable and encourage adaptive reuse or infill instead of demolition. Once the groundwork is laid there, expand the focus to the rest of Duval and the First Coast from a regional standpoint. Get the northwest some sewers. Miami's paying Brightline half a billion to run commuter rail for them, maybe that's something to consider, I don't know.

Please feel free to tear this to shreds for being unrealistic and expensive.

Yes, now that THIS has happened, dust off those 2015 plan(s), and before and after that, relative to building a replacement for the Landing. I would guess one of the reasons why the landing was demolished was because of Shad Khan and his "pie in the sky" promises for the Shipyards and Lot J. We need to get that foot traffic back into the "real" urban downtown core and let Khan and Miss Curry do what they want to do. Sheesh!!!!!!!

[thelakelander]

I always understood Miami "slam dunking" Jacksonville relative to building, construction, developing, etc. downtown; but when Tampa and Orlando, and even smaller cities (supposedly) like Fort Lauderdale, Sarasota, West Palm Beach, St. Petersburg, all have vibrant downtowns and are beating the stank out of Jax, that's sad...real sad. It just infuriates me when I visit Tampa and that City is just bursting at the seams with construction; cranes, cranes, cranes, development, construction, bee hive of activity like harvester ants.......and Jax? Dead. I know most of you can and might justify why those cities downtowns are so much more vibrant, dense, and prosperous, but Jax is Florida's largest city. I am mainly talking to the leaders of Jax and its Government, but IMO if you can't live up to it, let it go!

Tampa did what Orlando and St. Petersburg successfully pulled off years before them. They got out of their own way and started spending money on quality of life things like better parks, streets, riverwalks, museums, a convention center, etc.  While still pretty depressing if you remember when there was retail on Franklin, you can feel the buzz of change and revitalization in the air. What's happened there over the last decade is a good example for Jax.

[jaxjaguar]

^Yep. The cleanup and improvements around Lake Eola, street and sidewalk improvements, park cleanups and improvements, nightly lane closures to allow foot traffic, designated uber lots, etc all made huge differences in the "all day" experience in downtown Orlando. The program managers have been hitting it out of the park to by making sure there are multiple events throughout the day, nearly every day.

The new Dr Phillips Center is amazing too. It's been so successful they've already expanded it. It's an iconic looking building from the outside and the interior design is modern and breathtaking in scale.

[heights unknown]

I always understood Miami "slam dunking" Jacksonville relative to building, construction, developing, etc. downtown; but when Tampa and Orlando, and even smaller cities (supposedly) like Fort Lauderdale, Sarasota, West Palm Beach, St. Petersburg, all have vibrant downtowns and are beating the stank out of Jax, that's sad...real sad. It just infuriates me when I visit Tampa and that City is just bursting at the seams with construction; cranes, cranes, cranes, development, construction, bee hive of activity like harvester ants.......and Jax? Dead. I know most of you can and might justify why those cities downtowns are so much more vibrant, dense, and prosperous, but Jax is Florida's largest city. I am mainly talking to the leaders of Jax and its Government, but IMO if you can't live up to it, let it go!

Tampa did what Orlando and St. Petersburg successfully pulled off years before them. They got out of their own way and started spending money on quality of life things like better parks, streets, riverwalks, museums, a convention center, etc.  While still pretty depressing if you remember when there was retail on Franklin, you can feel the buzz of change and revitalization in the air. What's happened there over the last decade is a good example for Jax.

You bet "Lake;" and THAT'S where I was coming from!

[jaxlongtimer]

Nate Monroe, once again, calls it like it is:

Tearing down a bridge to somewhere

COMMENTARY | Jacksonville has a hardened addiction to chasing the Big Project: The billion-dollar something-or-other that will finally put this city by the river on the map, to prove to the world it belongs in the conversation, downtown's long-desired road to Damascus.

And so when Jaguars owner Shad Khan suggested years ago he might be interested in building something   — or a lot of things, it depends on which rendering one believes  — one day, maybe, on Metropolitan Park, what did you expect would happen? The city has rushed headlong to fulfill Khan's dreams (and his wallet) and has indicated time and again it will bow to one generous concession after the next: Give away remediated public land for free? Pay off the feds to weasel out of replacing downtown riverfront park space? Gift nearly a quarter of a billion dollars in public subsidies? All and more are on the table.

And yet the city, despite tremendous effort and expense, continues to find its day of salvation is always just out of reach.

At this point, who can even say anymore what, exactly, Khan plans on building between Lot J  —  the parking lot adjacent to TIAA Bank Field  —  and Metropolitan Park across the street? Every time a new question arises, or a new unflattering development surfaces, Khan simply rearranges the set pieces on his colorful renderings and pretends as if nothing is amiss....

.....It turns out what the city has actually done is bid development rights away it doesn't have to a developer who wouldn't commit, and now it's ready to bid it out again, and likely that same developer with less grandiose plans will win the rights the city doesn't have to a piece of property that can't be developed.

Sounds like a plan.

Read the whole column here:

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2020/08/20/jacksonvilles-dance-jaguars-owner-proves-fruitless/5608279002/

[Charles Hunter]

Nate Monroe is a treasure.