Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020

[vicupstate]

If Lot J is such a money-maker why cut anyone else in on the deal, especially if you could fund the whole thing yourself?

Why pay for 100% when someone will give you x% for the asking? The entity making the contribution isn't going to get a cut of the profits. And since the city is going to 'own' the improvements, there will be no property taxes either.

I was under the impression that the city was paying 1/2 the cost and the Jags and Cordish were splitting the other half, but that may not be right.   

[Kerry]

If Lot J is such a money-maker why cut anyone else in on the deal, especially if you could fund the whole thing yourself?

Why pay for 100% when someone will give you x% for the asking? The entity making the contribution isn't going to get a cut of the profits. And since the city is going to 'own' the improvements, there will be no property taxes either.

I was under the impression that the city was paying 1/2 the cost and the Jags and Cordish were splitting the other half, but that may not be right.

Good points.

[thelakelander]

I was under the impression that the city was paying 1/2 the cost and the Jags and Cordish were splitting the other half, but that may not be right.   

Yes, this is correct. Also, unless the terms are dramatically different from what was released last year, the stuff outside of Live! (which is what the city will own) will likely be built by others at some point when the market can support their use.

[vicupstate]

https://twitter.com/ChrisHongTU/status/1295764731479969800?s=20

Big news on the Shipyards/Metro Park front: Downtown Investment Authority CEO Lori Boyer said Shad Khan's deal allowing him to be the master developer has expired. The DIA will now seek new bids for the property.

Boyer said it's possible Khan's development firm, Iguana Investments, will submit a proposal to develop the land, but she anticipates it will be "significantly different" than his original proposal, which entailed him investing $500 million into the 70-acre parcel.

Boyer's understanding is that Khan is still highly interested in bringing a boutique hotel, like a Four Seasons, to part of the property. But she said the rest of the plan could be scaled back.

"I would guess at the moment, it is less dense than what we originally saw," Boyer said. "It's entirely possible, if not probably, that some of the things that were contemplated on the Shipyards may go on Lot J."

[Steve]

And, this is why you don't demolish things in anticipation of development.

Now, I do think the right decision was to demo the Hart Bridge ramps. But, it should have been done with the development.

[Snaketoz]

I was against the demo-ing of the Hart ramps from the get go.  Now, I will agree with you partially Steve.  Don't count your chickens before they hatch.  I used the Hart ramps into downtown frequently over the years and always thought they were essential to access many places easily.  Now, most of those places have been demolished and also the best way to get to them.  Sad.

[Steve]

By my count it's $56M:

$25M of COJ money for Hart Ramps
$9 for the Bay Street Gov't Complex
$22 for the Landing demo (including "East Lot" court decision)

What an ROI.

[thelakelander]

Anyone remember when people were wondering which project would break ground first? Shad Khan's Shipyards or Jeffrey Vinik's Water Street Tampa? I guess we now know the answer:

[sandyshoes]

Gee...who could have seen this coming.  Chalk another one up to the Puppet and the Master. 

[Ken_FSU]

Two logical outcomes seem to be:

1) The Jags remain committed to Jacksonville, and eventually develop Lot J and Met Park over the next 10 years.

2) The Jags are over dealing with Jacksonville, and have lost interest in outside development.

Just a week ago, we heard that the Jags wanted to conduct environmental tests at Met Park, so I still think number one is the more likely scenario.

From the Jags perspective, I'm not sure it still makes sense to claim master developer status for the Shipyards. Pie in the sky as it might be, the Jags/Cordish have three phases of construction in their Lot J (and potentially Met Park) plan before they'd even think about developing the Shipyards. That's gotta be 15 years away. Their priorities have obviously shifted away more toward the stadium area.

That said, good luck with that RFP of the heavily contaminated Shipyards property if we couldn't even get more than two responses for a much better, much cleaner piece of mixed-use property at the old Courthouse site.

Still a weird move though during a pandemic to take the property from Khan and RFP it. Gotta say, I'm losing a lot of faith in Lori Boyer as head of DIA. She's great when it comes to the nuts and bolts street-level stuff, but I question her handling of a lot of these larger properties. Still wish we would have brought in someone with a national track record and international connections with the development community.

[tufsu1]

Still a weird move though during a pandemic to take the property from Khan and RFP it. Gotta say, I'm losing a lot of faith in Lori Boyer as head of DIA. She's great when it comes to the nuts and bolts street-level stuff, but I question her handling of a lot of these larger properties. Still wish we would have brought in someone with a national track record and international connections with the development community.

this one is in no way her fault - and given the sweetheart deal Khan was going to get from Curry, I'm happy to see it expire. Now it can be renegotiated with more ROI in quality and $ to the taxpayers.

[vicupstate]

Still wish we would have brought in someone with a national track record and international connections with the development community.

Anyone with that level of experience would be committing career suicide to come to Jacksonville.

[jaxlongtimer]

By my count it's $56M:

$25M of COJ money for Hart Ramps
$9 for the Bay Street Gov't Complex
$22 for the Landing demo (including "East Lot" court decision)

What an ROI.

I believe we should also count the FDOT and Federal monies used in demolishing the Hart Ramps.  I recall this would bring the taxpayer's investment in their demolition to nearly $50 million just for that.

Wonder if Khan's reluctance will rub off on the Doro project?  They should be getting nervous about the area based on this.

I also wonder if Curry isn't happy (maybe instigated) that Khan is backing down as I didn't see a way for him to secure the $233 million promised after the COVID impact on City finances and the JEA scandal's impact on Curry's standing with the voters.

Lastly, I hope this gives a boost to the Downtown group advocating for more green space, especially along our waterfront.  Would be amazing if both Khan and Rummel turned back their properties along the water to the City.  I think this is best for out City over the decades to come vs. heavily subsidized and risky developments put on the taxpayers' backs while enriching Curry's buddies.

[Captain Zissou]

Still a weird move though during a pandemic to take the property from Khan and RFP it. Gotta say, I'm losing a lot of faith in Lori Boyer as head of DIA. She's great when it comes to the nuts and bolts street-level stuff, but I question her handling of a lot of these larger properties. Still wish we would have brought in someone with a national track record and international connections with the development community.

this one is in no way her fault - and given the sweetheart deal Khan was going to get from Curry, I'm happy to see it expire. Now it can be renegotiated with more ROI in quality and $ to the taxpayers.

Maybe Boyer is trying to show that Jax is finally growing a back bone.  Curry has been around for 5.5 years and has failed to deliver on almost every promise he's made.  As people are starting to look at life after curry we need to stop pandering to big money and be smarter with who we partner with on city owned land downtown.  The pie in the sky billion dollar projects that will never materialize need to take a backseat to smart development.  If Curry could, he'd let Khan hold onto the project indefinitely regardless of signs of progress.  I like that we took it away.

[marcuscnelson]

Well, this is something. At this point, as much as it sucks to be dealt this hand, I think there are ways of making it all work.
So here's my Magical Plan to Save Downtown:

Finish tearing down the Hart ramps. I've been fine with this, honestly. If anything I wish it would all stay at street level instead of going back elevated. Develop the street-level grid and factor in the Skyway (Or U2C, assuming they seriously build that out as planned).

At this point, I feel like it'd be worth it to just eat the cost of remediating the Shipyards, assuming that the city will get back at least some of that cost from selling it off in parcels as the economy starts to recover. At this point it should be obvious that big master planned developments don't work here, given this is the third time the Shipyards have failed to materialize and the District is still one of our many glorious grass fields. Maybe remediate it by section and sell it, then move on. It won't be a nice master planned area, but it won't be grass next to water either.

Move Metro Park wherever would be suitable, I'm assuming either part of the Shipyards or somewhere else. It'd be nice to have a real signature urban park but I don't think we'd be willing to spend on it. If Khan wants to build his Four Seasons, he can get the land but he should pay to build it.

Tearing down City Hall is one of our worst mistakes, but what's done is done. Let Spandrel build their apartments on the Courthouse block and work with Hyatt to build an exhibition hall on the City Hall block. Now that the Shipyards Convention Center is clearly much further away, we should push ahead to work with Hyatt.

With that accomplished, we could give the Terminal to Brightline to incentivize them to hurry up and bring service to Jax, with the requirement that they also include Amtrak service. We'll maybe also end up with Park Line apartments, so that's a plus.

Dust off the 2015 plan for the Landing and find someone to get it built. Add parking. What's been done is done, we just have to do better. We knew before this happened that it would decimate walkability in the urban core, and the prophecy has come to pass.

While all of those big picture ideas are being worked on, take care of the little things to make the streets more walkable and encourage adaptive reuse or infill instead of demolition. Once the groundwork is laid there, expand the focus to the rest of Duval and the First Coast from a regional standpoint. Get the northwest some sewers. Miami's paying Brightline half a billion to run commuter rail for them, maybe that's something to consider, I don't know.

Please feel free to tear this to shreds for being unrealistic and expensive.