Demolition of Kartouche Building

aubureck · July 08, 2020, 06:54:17 AM

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/former-kartouche-night-club-building-downtown-in-review-for-demolition

thelakelander · July 08, 2020, 07:01:48 AM

One of the last buildings in that area with a direct link back to the days of it being a small Greek district. Can't wait to see the types of variances requested (and granted) to allow for a suburban gas station on a full DT block.

acme54321 · July 08, 2020, 09:28:05 AM

There are acres of grass around it and they can't find anywhere else to build a gas station?

thelakelander · July 08, 2020, 09:33:45 AM

Nope. Got to have one that sucks up an entire city block. Funny thing is our policies are so screwed up, we'll spend more time reviewing and debating crape mrytles vs palm trees and knee walls for the gas station parking lot than we will reviewing the demolition permit for historic site. On the bright side, the gas station convenience store may be the closest thing the Northbank gets to being considered a grocery store (outside of the one that already exists.....Harvey's) for the next several years.

tufsu1 · July 08, 2020, 10:34:20 AM

Isn't this the building Steve Williams was looking at a few years ago to move Harbinger Sign into?

jaxjaguar · July 08, 2020, 01:34:51 PM

There's literally an entire empty City block across the street... Since as a country we're cleaning up our past we should change the name of the City to Raze, since that's our favorite pastime

thelakelander · July 08, 2020, 02:26:27 PM

Yes, an empty block owned by someone else! This has higher visibility and traffic counts (more preferable for a gas station user) and is owned by a different entity (this property owner wants the money in their pockets and not the neighbor's). Without direction or a vision for areas like this in downtown, what plays out is typically left to the property owner and potential buyers. So the general outcome we get is the same we've received for decades. If we want to change, we have to change our DT development strategies. So far, we haven't been willing to do that in a way that would guide the market as opposed to react to it.

jaxlongtimer · July 08, 2020, 04:24:50 PM

Lake, I recall we discussed this on another thread and even shared examples of incorporating an historic structure like this into the convenience store/station. Can we link the threads together?

Doro, First Baptist, Fire Station 5, the Landing, old City Hall/Courthouse, Kartouche... and that's just in the last 12 months or so. Just disgraceful, disrespectful, insulting, regrettable, sad, and wasteful that Jacksonville continues to destroy its past with abandon. Add what the Port's dredging will do to the ecology of the St. Johns River for ever and ever.

What world do our elected officials come from that they have no backbone or desire to stand up to this destruction of the character and history of our community? It's all about the dollar, quality of life and future generations be damned. Maybe it will be a blessing when rising seas bury the City under several feet of water (another need we are not seriously addressing) and put us out of our misery

.

acme54321 · July 08, 2020, 04:25:02 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on July 08, 2020, 10:34:20 AM
Isn't this the building Steve Williams was looking at a few years ago to move Harbinger Sign into?

.

Nope, that one burned down. I think I was next door to this one.

heights unknown · July 08, 2020, 04:32:48 PM

When I look at that aerial photo/shot, and see all of the empty lots, why does "bombing" come into mind? Because those lots look like someone bombed them and then razed them and left them empty. What a sorrowful sight.

heights unknown · July 08, 2020, 04:34:50 PM

Quote from: jaxjaguar on July 08, 2020, 01:34:51 PM
There's literally an entire empty City block across the street... Since as a country we're cleaning up our past we should change the name of the City to Raze, since that's our favorite pastime

Razesonville, or how about bombsonville, or, demolitionsonville.

simms3 · July 09, 2020, 07:33:04 AM

I am planning on raising holy hell with a few elected officials on this one. I have a meeting with a city councilman at 10 today largely to discuss FBC demolition decision. Who would have thought the news about this building would have come out the night before?!

I left at 18 and didn't come back for a long time, but I remember being so fed up with Jax as a teenager watching bad decisions constantly being made in slow-mo, and now I'm back for less than a year and it's literally WORSE now at a time when it's better in every other city. It's literal insanity what goes on with downtown decision making.

I really want to try to be involved. Almost every single thing in this city that is cool and gives it character and draws people is a business in an adaptive reuse or otherwise just old building. We have very little of it left in certain parts and we want to destroy them no questions asked?

Where the hell is the Chamber's voice on this? They do jack shit... All these stupid trips to other cities and they never actually bring any wisdom back. Having a cool old building stock is good for business and economic development!! Where are their voices on anything?! Most wasteful organization in this city.

Lori Boyer is quoted as not even knowing a thing about the demolition or proposed new use. That's insane. That's how this city operates? She's trying to revive downtown and get small business programs going and incentive programs and this is pretty much a significant building and significant plans and she's left completely out of the loop?

The building is built in 1914. It's one of the last old buildings in LaVilla and has a history there. It's one of the last remaining buildings from the Harlem of the South, and yet there are no qualms about razing it? LeAnn Cumber probably thinks historic designations for such buildings are a violation of private property rights (forget the fact that basic zoning with its requirements can easily place severe limitations on what can be developed, but I guess that's ok?).

I'm not a protester or even one to support the BLM movement at its core, but I'd love to join up the black community in protesting the demolition of this building. It has a history within the black community, even recently I'd say with its previous use as Club Kartouche, and DV8 before that. In the era of BLM and all the spotlight on supporting the black community, I'm surprised this can even fly!!

Lake, I'm going to try emailing you again because I'd still like to meet up and pick your brain, also see how I can get more involved these days with stuff like this... You haven't responded to my previous emails.

thelakelander · July 09, 2020, 08:19:57 AM

^Unfortunately, it has become worse since you left, which is kind of crazy considering the economic period we were in before the pandemic. We have tools on the books for preservation but our leaders aren't proactively using or supporting them. As such, what's happening downtown is quite predictable. Lately, I've been helping, advising and empowering communities outside of downtown because there's even less focus on preservation and adaptive reuse there. However, we should be able to save some LaVilla buildings (excluding this one unfortunately). Shoot me an email. I'm working in town now, at least through August, so I'm pretty flexible at the moment.

Bill Hoff · July 09, 2020, 10:34:03 AM

Quote from: simms3 on July 09, 2020, 07:33:04 AM
I am planning on raising holy hell with a few elected officials on this one. I have a meeting with a city councilman at 10 today largely to discuss FBC demolition decision. Who would have thought the news about this building would have come out the night before?!

I left at 18 and didn't come back for a long time, but I remember being so fed up with Jax as a teenager watching bad decisions constantly being made in slow-mo, and now I'm back for less than a year and it's literally WORSE now at a time when it's better in every other city. It's literal insanity what goes on with downtown decision making.

I really want to try to be involved. Almost every single thing in this city that is cool and gives it character and draws people is a business in an adaptive reuse or otherwise just old building. We have very little of it left in certain parts and we want to destroy them no questions asked?

Where the hell is the Chamber's voice on this? They do jack shit... All these stupid trips to other cities and they never actually bring any wisdom back. Having a cool old building stock is good for business and economic development!! Where are their voices on anything?! Most wasteful organization in this city.

Lori Boyer is quoted as not even knowing a thing about the demolition or proposed new use. That's insane. That's how this city operates? She's trying to revive downtown and get small business programs going and incentive programs and this is pretty much a significant building and significant plans and she's left completely out of the loop?

The building is built in 1914. It's one of the last old buildings in LaVilla and has a history there. It's one of the last remaining buildings from the Harlem of the South, and yet there are no qualms about razing it? LeAnn Cumber probably thinks historic designations for such buildings are a violation of private property rights (forget the fact that basic zoning with its requirements can easily place severe limitations on what can be developed, but I guess that's ok?).

I'm not a protester or even one to support the BLM movement at its core, but I'd love to join up the black community in protesting the demolition of this building. It has a history within the black community, even recently I'd say with its previous use as Club Kartouche, and DV8 before that. In the era of BLM and all the spotlight on supporting the black community, I'm surprised this can even fly!!

Lake, I'm going to try emailing you again because I'd still like to meet up and pick your brain, also see how I can get more involved these days with stuff like this... You haven't responded to my previous emails.

Two issues:

1. Beggars can't be choosers. The Downtown core will basically take whatever it can get, regarding development. That's been the attitude. And in fairness, that's a rational perspective - noone with vision & money is beating down the door to acquire buildings like this.

2. Talk is cheap. While there has been a fair amount of online discussion about how something should change regarding demos and renovation incentives, there's been little actual action or organizing around it. Steve Williams (Harbinger) has sort of been the face of the new effort to address these issues, via #mappingjax, but it's more of a passion hobby for him, not his fulltime focus.

Something as simple as:

- Calling a large meeting of like minded folks
- Identifying low hanging fruit
- Strategizing how to influence COJ

hasn't been done. These are easy steps. But, it takes someone with the time, energy and skill set to lead. I could do this, as I'm sure others associated with The Jaxson & beyond could, but it hasn't risen to be enough of a priority for X person yet. Is that person you? I'm down to be a lieutenant, just not the general.

Captain Zissou · July 09, 2020, 10:40:22 AM

#mappingjax started with great intentions and has generated a large following, but the FB portion has really gone off the rails and has become a place to complain about whatever you don't like about Jax. I know there are some important people within the group and I hope that they are sticking to the mission offline, but I have stopped checking in because the FB community has lost focus.