The Ford on Bay

[billy]

I believe there was a boatyard/marina or two in Riverside/Brooklyn a long time ago, not sure where.

Yes, I am old. Go listen to one of your Ed Sheeran cassette tapes ....
....and stay off my lawn!

[FlaBoy]

The river from St Vincent's to the stadium is barely used at all.

Dumb question from a non-boater:

Why is this?

Seems like everywhere you look in Florida, the rivers and waterways are jammed with recreational boats. Fishing boats. Sail boats. Pontoons. Fort Myers, where I grew up, has a river running through it's downtown, and it's not uncommon to see literally 300 boats dotting the river at any given time.

What makes Jax different? The conditions? Economics? Is everyone just off boating somewhere else?

As a boater, the reason is there is nowhere to dock.  We used to go downtown on our boat all the time and dock at the landing to have lunch.  The docks got messed up so we don't go downtown anymore on the boat.  There needs to be a marina for boats to come.  Not putting public docks here would be a real shame.  We would get day boaters as well as transients (not bums, rich people on yachts) passing through on their way up north.  Of course you need to have the retail/nightlife/food in order to support those transients.  When snowbirds bring their boats from the North East to their south Florida homes, they skip jax because there is no good place to dock.  A few people stop at Beach Marine for the night, but they definitely don't stay for a few days like they do in Charleston because there is absolutely nothing to do in Jax for a boater looking to make a trip of it.

^100%.  I would come from Palm Valley to downtown on a day trip frequently if there were a place to dock.  The Berkman marina was literally empty in 2012.  Look at it now.  And the Landing site was in total disrepair 3 hurricanes ago. Plus, boat vandals prevented overnight docking (not to mention no power stations).  I'm sure a new marina would be well utilized, especially if it could accomodate medium term visitors, like St. Augustine Municipal.  Some people might think the current is too strong for a lot of recreational boating.  Not true.  All local boating destinations have current issues.

Especially right where there is supposed to be nightlife/bars and retail. It would be the perfect location for some day drinking. It would be sweet to have a little make shift bar/hut of sort in the Marina too so folks could just pull up and load up for a bit. They have something similar in DT Tampa by the convention center.

[marcuscnelson]

So based on everything I've heard here, it sounds like the ideal solution would be:

• Convince Hyatt to use their right of first refusal, acquire the parcel directly adjacent to the hotel for use as an exhibition hall connected to their existing meeting space with retail and nightlife on the ground level.
• Award Spandrel the remaining land parcel, give them a little bit of incentive to build their development on it.
• Construct an economical marina on the coastline parcel that can provide access to downtown and see if induced demand works.
• With the Prime Osborn vacated, demolish the convention center and make those parcels available for development (maybe build a park and ride lot while we're waiting), while planning to bring Amtrak downtown and perhaps Virgin.
• Tell JTA to cool it with the AVs and just build a normal urban circulator system.

[itsfantastic1]

So based on everything I've heard here, it sounds like the ideal solution would be:

• Convince Hyatt to use their right of first refusal, acquire the parcel directly adjacent to the hotel for use as an exhibition hall connected to their existing meeting space with retail and nightlife on the ground level.
• Award Spandrel the remaining land parcel, give them a little bit of incentive to build their development on it.
• Construct an economical marina on the coastline parcel that can provide access to downtown and see if induced demand works.
• With the Prime Osborn vacated, demolish the convention center and make those parcels available for development (maybe build a park and ride lot while we're waiting), while planning to bring Amtrak downtown and perhaps Virgin.
• Tell JTA to cool it with the AVs and just build a normal urban circulator system.

Sounds pretty great to me!

[Ken_FSU]

Spandrel got the nod from the selection committee, per the Daily Record.

[MusicMan]

I would love an independent thread addressing the market for another marina downtown. I am not a boater, but I am at the TU for 40 weeks a year and often drive from San Marco to Springfield at 7 45 am to get my daughter to Stanton. I am not seeing a lot of boats, probably because it's too early. But the marina at Met park was woefully underused and it seemed pretty nice. And everyone curses the city marina on South bank because of the strong current.  Perhaps it's because we don't have a lot of retired recreational boaters who would be downtown or thereabouts.  But what about crew or kayaking or SUP?  Don;t see that downtown at all, and I always wondered why. 

[marcuscnelson]

Spandrel got the nod from the selection committee, per the Daily Record.

First, probably should have swapped Phases 1 and 2. With that in mind...

Excellent. Now on to Phase 2: Convince Hyatt to claim their right of first refusal in order to build an exhibition hall.

[marcuscnelson]

I wonder if there's any chance we could brush off the restaurant idea from Iguana's "Riverwalk Place" plan if we were to do a marina in that area.

https://www.wokv.com/news/local/riverwalk-place-proposed-for-old-courthouse-annex-site-downtown/T10ZldvsaQhCNxyyj2m2jO/

[howfam]

Give Spandrel a deal for another vacant city owned site and let them put their low rise, stick frame apartments there.

Another stick-frame low rise structure is hardly a replacement for the 15 story brick building that used to occupy the city hall portion of this site. Another example of Jax's phobia when it comes to high rises, and a gross underutilization of precious water-front real estate.

[Peter Griffin]

Another example of Jax's phobia when it comes to high rises, and a gross underutilization of precious water-front real estate.

High-rises don't have a viable market in Jax. You can't build what the market won't support, and replacing a vacant structure with a mid-rise apartment building is a net benefit.

We're not Miami, we don't need to pretend to be.

[thelakelander]

This is why you preserve what you have. You'll never get the density and character back. In the majority of these demolition situations we're ending up paying more for interior products that take a decade or more to materialize into something that actually exists.

[Tacachale]

This is why you preserve what you have. You'll never get the density and character back. In the majority of these demolition situations we're ending up paying more for interior products that take a decade or more to materialize into something that actually exists.

Yes, in this case, simply not blowing up the annex would have resulted in a denser product that would be cheaper for the city.

[Peter Griffin]

This is why you preserve what you have. You'll never get the density and character back. In the majority of these demolition situations we're ending up paying more for interior products that take a decade or more to materialize into something that actually exists.

Yes, in this case, simply not blowing up the annex would have resulted in a denser product that would be cheaper for the city.

This is assuming that adaptive reuse would have actually occurred, which seems to be the magical assumption rampant on this forum.

[vicupstate]

This is why you preserve what you have. You'll never get the density and character back. In the majority of these demolition situations we're ending up paying more for interior products that take a decade or more to materialize into something that actually exists.

Yes, in this case, simply not blowing up the annex would have resulted in a denser product that would be cheaper for the city.

This is assuming that adaptive reuse would have actually occurred, which seems to be the magical assumption rampant on this forum.

One which is easily proved or disproved with an RFP. Of course, given the city's reputation for wasting a lot of people's time and money, there might have been genuine interest that wouldn't take it seriously simply because of said reputation.   

[FlaBoy]

This is why you preserve what you have. You'll never get the density and character back. In the majority of these demolition situations we're ending up paying more for interior products that take a decade or more to materialize into something that actually exists.

Yes, in this case, simply not blowing up the annex would have resulted in a denser product that would be cheaper for the city.

This is assuming that adaptive reuse would have actually occurred, which seems to be the magical assumption rampant on this forum.

With the type of money, in the end, it will be for the demo and damage caused by demo (around $7 million) and the type of incentives being sought anyway, it would have made more sense. Likewise, that building was historic and dense. It would have taken some incentives, but it would have gotten done and cheaper than what it will end up being for the city.