The Ford on Bay

[vicupstate]

Slightly off topic, but any progress on the Hyatt Place hotel across from the Landing ruins? 

[Peter Griffin]

Slightly off topic, but any progress on the Hyatt Place hotel across from the Landing ruins?

Entirely off-topic. The relevant thread is here:

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,34928.15.html

[vicupstate]

I was aware of that thread, but it can be difficult to find a thread that has not been updated recently.
It is on Bay Street, and within close distance of the 'Ford', and the two projects will clearly benefit each other. I wouldn't say it is 'entirely' off topic.   

[Ken_FSU]

Lori Boyer is great for Jacksonville, and she's got some fantastic ideas for downtown Jacksonville. Love the zoning overhaul, love the restaurant districts and retail grants, love the ideas for the riverwalk. That said, there would have also been a lot of value in bringing in someone to head the DIA with national experience and a proven track record marketing a city to outside investors and revitalizing its downtown. As much as I like and respect her, a fresh perspective from outside of Jacksonville could have been nice.

Here's my feeling: Think of a truly world class downtown as a $5B company. Think of Jacksonville's as a $10M company. If you're a $10M company you can have all of the aspirations to be a $5B company, but you need so much in terms of groundwork first. In other words, think of a position like a CIO. The person who can take the company from $10M to $250M isn't necessarily the same person that takes a company from $1B to $5B.

I see Boyer as the person that can take us from a "$10M company" downtown to somewhere between $250M and $1B....provided the rest of the leadership is there (i.e. the CEO). Do I see her taking downtown from being that "$1B company" downtown to a "$5b company" downtown. I do not.

Long story short I think she's the right person right now. Not necessarily 10 years from now.

Great post, Steve.

I like this analogy.

[itsfantastic1]

A joke of mine from another thread about the Ford on Bay is actually possible.

How great would it be if the Ford on Bay ended up as a convention center/marina anyway, just done to the Hyatt's size/market specifications instead of the city's.

Looks like an unsolicited bid for a convention center appeared but won't be judged against the formal RFPs (but should they reject both offers, it may come back into play)

The Downtown Investment Authority also received an unsolicited proposal for a convention center and supporting facilities at the site that will not be considered.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/bids-for-the-ford-on-bay-site-downtown-to-be-unveiled-feb-4

[thelakelander]

I so hope we're not screwing ourselves on this convention center issue. Despite the farce of convention center RFP last year and unsolicited sports district convention center renderings that torpedoed things, the reality is a convention center attached to the Hyatt makes all the sense in the world for downtown.

[Charles Hunter]

I so hope we're not screwing ourselves on this convention center issue. Despite the farce of convention center RFP last year and unsolicited sports district convention center renderings that torpedoed things, the reality is a convention center attached to the Hyatt makes all the sense in the world for downtown.

Thereby disqualifying it from consideration.

[vicupstate]

I so hope we're not screwing ourselves on this convention center issue. Despite the farce of convention center RFP last year and unsolicited sports district convention center renderings that torpedoed things, the reality is a convention center attached to the Hyatt makes all the sense in the world for downtown.

The only convention center that will get built while Curry is mayor, is one where Shad Khan wants it, and that isn't next to the Hyatt. Politics doesn't care about logic.

[thelakelander]

Curry won't get it built. We'll just do something crazy like put a Waffle House or stick frame apartment complex on the city hall annex site to eliminate the possibility.

[vicupstate]

Curry won't get it built. We'll just do something crazy like put a Waffle House or stick frame apartment complex on the city hall annex site to eliminate the possibility.

Well, that was my point but expressed in a round about way.

[Ken_FSU]

I so hope we're not screwing ourselves on this convention center issue. Despite the farce of convention center RFP last year and unsolicited sports district convention center renderings that torpedoed things, the reality is a convention center attached to the Hyatt makes all the sense in the world for downtown.

Thereby disqualifying it from consideration.

Convention Center has always made the most sense, but could you imagine any national developer ever submitting a proposal in Jacksonville again if we:

- Put out an RFP for a convention center at the Courthouse site
- Received an unsolicited bid for a convention center at the Shipyards and mixed use at the Courthouse site
- Backed out of a selection; wasted the time of all those involved
- Put out a new RFP for mixed use at the Courthouse site
- Received an unsolicited offer for a convention center center at the Courthouse site
- Backed out of a selection; wasted the time of all those involved
- Put out a new RFP for a convention center at the Courthouse site

It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

To me, best case scenario would be if the developers only bid on Pads 2 & 3 (allowable under the RFP). That would potentially put mixed-use residential and marina into play for the site while leaving Pad 1 open for a modestly priced convention center integrated with the Hyatt (like this - https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-dec-a-cheap-solution-to-jaxs-convention-center-problem/page/1).



Sure, Shad wants a convention center, but even if we agreed to give it to him, so many things need to happen first. Hart Bridge ramps need to come down (a two-year project). Lot J needs to be built (a three-year project). Phase II of Lot J needs to be built (let's call that two more years). A stadium lease extension and upgrades need to be negiotated and executed. The Shipyards need to be remediated.

Feels like we could have shovels in the ground on a cheap but market-appropriate solution tomorrow, versus waiting until 2030 or longer to build at the Shipyards. Would also open up the Prime Osborne for potential transit use instead of holding it hostage for another decade+.

[Steve]

Convention Center has always made the most sense, but could you imagine any national developer ever submitting a proposal in Jacksonville again if we:

- Put out an RFP for a convention center at the Courthouse site
- Received an unsolicited bid for a convention center at the Shipyards and mixed use at the Courthouse site
- Backed out of a selection; wasted the time of all those involved
- Put out a new RFP for mixed use at the Courthouse site
- Received an unsolicited offer for a convention center center at the Courthouse site
- Backed out of a selection; wasted the time of all those involved
- Put out a new RFP for a convention center at the Courthouse site

It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

I've thought the exact same thing. I also heard there was an RFP-type process going on regarding selling JEA that we pulled the plug on. I think I heard something like that recently:)

I mean, at some point we need to follow through with an RFP.

Now....if both of these proposals from Related and Spandrel are both terrible, then we can seriously look at them. Something tells me that this won't be the case though. Both of these guys are large development groups.

[thelakelander]

Or make them modify it. That's what happened with Vestcor's townhouse bid in LaVilla.

[tufsu1]

^ If the Related Company proposal is reasonable, I say let's see fi they can make it happen. They finally expanded out of south Florida into Tampa a few years ago and built some apartments across the river from the downtown core. That said, the design is uninspiring.

[vicupstate]

^ If the Related Company proposal is reasonable, I say let's see fi they can make it happen. They finally expanded out of south Florida into Tampa a few years ago and built some apartments across the river from the downtown core. That said, the design is uninspiring.

Am I missing something? Has a design been published? I thought everything was under wraps for a few days yet.