Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development

[Tacachale]

Stop the insanity and just send a Get Out of Jax offer to the Jags.  They pay us $400 million cash, transfer full ownership of Dailys Place to the City, and they can walk away 10 years early.

I'll give you $100 to move

The NFL promised untold benefits and being on ESPN every week was supposed to deliver jobs, corporate relocations, civic pride, and be an economic boost to all of northeast Florida.  Well, 20 years later none of that happened and all we have to show for it is a lot of debt.  We still have to bail the team out and pay Amazon $20 million to provide us with same-day delivery.

Perhaps someone without the unbridled disdain and conspiratorial contempt for the Jaguars would have a more nuanced view. A previous member of the Jaguars ownership team, the founder of the Touchdown Jacksonville group that was responsible for bringing the Jaguars to Jacksonville, and at the time the chairman of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission... Tom Petway was principally responsible for the Fidelity relocation that brought two (and at times three) Fortune 500 headquarters to Jacksonville. 17 years later, Fidelity is about to double its Jacksonville's corporate presence through the acquisition and subsequent relocation of the company headquarters of Worldpay.

Petway's home served as the personal residence of Fidelity chairman Bill Foley and his executive leadership team during their time visiting Jacksonville and speaking to public and private business leaders during the relocation recruitment. Foley like Petway's home so much, he eventually bought it.

Both Petway and Foley have credited Florida's more welcoming corporate culture and lower costs of living (as compared to California) as part of Fidelity's move, but have also always maintained that the Jaguars significantly elevated Jacksonville's corporate profile among CEOs. I've personally heard them say this about a dozen times I can recall off the top of my head. Being someone that actually lived here before and after the Jaguars.. I can tell you UNQUESTIONABLY that from a civic pride and corporate recognition standpoint, the Jaguars have done more to raise Jacksonville's profile than anything I've personally witnessed. Its nice that you flood this board with whiny complaints, but I vividly remember living in the stench of this city when the paper mills permeated an olfactory funk throughout the neighborhoods where I grew up. The Jacksonville of today is night and day different from pre-Jaguars days.

Notwithstanding whatever future incentives will be requested for Lot J and future stadium upgrades (and a vociferous and well-reasoned debate is absolutely necessary in regards to these future asks).... an objective look back and examination of the public money spent on the Jaguars has been demonstrably less than virtually all other NFL cities over the past 30 years (aside from lukewarm and not-particularly serious attempts to move teams from Houston, Baltimore, St Louis and New Orleans to Jacksonville... the NFL expansion talk that led to the Jaguars began here in 1991). 

Lot J deserves intense scrutiny from the general public and elected officials, but for some Johnny-come-lately carpet bagger to churn out such hot garbage about what the Jaguars have meant to Jacksonville as you do simply doesn't line up to the actual experiences of real-life Jaxsons.

Well stated, Mike.

[downtownbrown]

Lot J deserves intense scrutiny from the general public and elected officials, but for some Johnny-come-lately carpet bagger to churn out such hot garbage about what the Jaguars have meant to Jacksonville as you do simply doesn't line up to the actual experiences of real-life Jaxsons.

Right on.  However, please remember that the purpose of the Forum is to bash Lenny Curry, oppose urban development (except for adaptive reuse of decrepit buildings), and decry taxpayer investments in the downtown area.  Support for the mayor, the Jaguars, and urban redevelopment will not be tolerated.

[Downtown Osprey]

Breaking news - most of the city doesn't care about the Jags either.  Except for game day and wear your jersey to work day - honestly, how much Jags stuff do you see people wearing?

This is such a short sighted comment, I don't even know where to begin. Complain all you want, but you don't know what you're talking about here.

[Peter Griffin]

Right on.  However, please remember that the purpose of the Forum is to bash Lenny Curry, oppose urban development (except for adaptive reuse of decrepit buildings), and decry taxpayer investments in the downtown area.  Support for the mayor, the Jaguars, and urban redevelopment will not be tolerated.

Hot take! I like what you're sayin'

The forum is on fire this morning

[Kerry]

Stop the insanity and just send a Get Out of Jax offer to the Jags.  They pay us $400 million cash, transfer full ownership of Dailys Place to the City, and they can walk away 10 years early.

I'll give you $100 to move

Do you have $100?  Make it $150 and I'll delete my MetroJax account.  I would move out of Jax for free if it was just up to me.

[heights unknown]

Jacksonville...doomed. Hurts me to say that. I believe, sincerely, though the area doesn't staunchly or fully support them, when and if the Jags leave town, that will not only be the "nail in the coffin" for downtown Jacksonville, but for Jacksonville as a whole.

I beg to differ.  The Jags leaving would be the best thing to happen to downtown Jax in 50 years.  It is like getting out of an abusive relationship.  The Jags were supposed to be "for better or worse", but the taxpayers gave the better and the Jags gave the worse.

Imagine where all the money spent on the Jags for 20 years (public, private, and corporate) would have gone if not sent down the NFL's black hole.  The Jags are a luxury item and we can't even afford the necessities.

The NFL promised untold benefits and being on ESPN every week was supposed to deliver jobs, corporate relocations, civic pride, and be an economic boost to all of northeast Florida.  Well, 20 years later none of that happened and all we have to show for it is a lot of debt.  We still have to bail the team out and pay Amazon $20 million to provide us with same-day delivery.

Having the Jags out of the equation will force Jax leadership to refocus on the correct priorities.

I respect and somewhat agree with what you're saying Kerry, and I get it (what you are saying and where you are coming from). But from my own personal position and opinion, there was nothing going on in DT Jax in 1995 when I left for South Florida and the Jags were just coming on line; and...since that time, which is 25 years now, though the Jags have stayed in Jax, it was not the shot in the arm that everyone thought (and I thought that as well). DT Jax has awakened in some areas, and I am elated that there has been progress and some growth, though still slower and behind almost all of Florida's other major/significant cities; but on the whole, DT Jax is still way behind, unorganized as to who it is and where it wants to be, and getting rid of the Landing, though it was on the decline (they could have found a much more progressive and successful purpose), was just stupid stupid stupid in my opinion. Now that the Landing is gone, that has created a seriously huge bottomless hole in DT Jax; at least there was some action when the Landing existed, now it's nil to none after 5 PM or even earlier as I've seen when I've visited. So this is where I am coming from. I could be wrong Kerry, and I do agree somewhat with what you said and understand completely where you're coming from. I just hope THE DISTRICT, LOT J, and other things proposed will happen, and I also hope, though most of you want them gone, that the JAGS don't leave and somehow Khan and this silly Curry guy, get together and really make things happen, not only in the Stadium District but also in the North Bank Urban Core.

[heights unknown]

Stop the insanity and just send a Get Out of Jax offer to the Jags.  They pay us $400 million cash, transfer full ownership of Dailys Place to the City, and they can walk away 10 years early.

I'll give you $100 to move

Do you have $100?  Make it $150 and I'll delete my MetroJax account.  I would move out of Jax for free if it was just up to me.

Now now Kerry, let's not go to that extreme; everything is gonna be alright; trust me. I think I read something online about 65 story triplet towers being built on the Northbank; just playing. And so are you.

[Kerry]

I'm a new urbanist.  I actually don't like towers and prefer buildings top out at about 10 to 12 floors.

[Ken_FSU]

Sneaky interesting week for downtown.

City Council is deciding tomorrow whether to give the Armada land in the sports complex for their stadium/offices.

DIA evaluation committee is forming their recommendation for the Ford on Bay property.

Permitting underway for the Ventures apartments.

And, for better or worse, there's a lot of talk that the mayor's office and the Jags have moved from "very close" to imminent on the Lot J deal. Believe it when I see it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see an announcement by end of next week that the economic development agreement is ready for the DIA/City Council.

[thelakelander]

Sports complex or the Eastside site north of the Arlington Bridge Expressway?

Hopefully the mayor will iron out their Lot J deal and move it on to the DIA/City Council. I'm really interested to see how things play out with the council, given the JEA fiasco.

[Ken_FSU]

Sports complex or the Eastside site north of the Arlington Bridge Expressway?

Hopefully the mayor will iron out their Lot J deal and move it on to the DIA/City Council. I'm really interested to see how things play out with the council, given the JEA fiasco.

Lot XX and Y, just north of the Fairgrounds.

On Lot J, I think we'll see the ol' artificial urgency come into play. Gotta get it signed immediately so we can start filling in that retention pond during the offseason.

[Tacachale]

Sports complex or the Eastside site north of the Arlington Bridge Expressway?

Hopefully the mayor will iron out their Lot J deal and move it on to the DIA/City Council. I'm really interested to see how things play out with the council, given the JEA fiasco.

Lot XX and Y, just north of the Fairgrounds.

On Lot J, I think we'll see the ol' artificial urgency come into play. Gotta get it signed immediately so we can start filling in that retention pond during the offseason.

So Eastside for the soccer stadium.

[Charles Hunter]

Yes. But, since it involves parking lots designated for the Sports Complex, they are considering the soccer site part of the Sports Complex.

Does Phase 1 of Lot J include replacement parking? With various projects, Sports Complex parking is being decreased: Lot J, the Hart Ramp (in the RV City area), and the soccer stadium.

[thelakelander]

They may be. I was looking at it in terms of further penetrating a historic African-American neighborhood and potential opportunities for withintrification in the Eastside as opposed to the type gentrification and displacement we've witnessed with Brooklyn.

[tufsu1]

Does Phase 1 of Lot J include replacement parking?

The stormwater pond will be filled (or vaulted) to make way for a parking garage