Public Meeting Planned For Hart Bridge Ramp Removal (Renderings included)

[thelakelander]

It would really be good to get an update on the status of Lot J's incentives package. I imagine anything Curry has proposed will face some additional scrutiny considering the JEA fallout and poor track record with previous deals. It would be foolish to implement demo of that bridge now, only to see Lot J die or be indefinitely postponed a few weeks or months later.

[Ken_FSU]

It would be foolish to implement demo of _________ now, only to see ___________ die or be indefinitely postponed a few weeks or months later.

[Snaketoz]

Keep the ramps until you see steel being erected in lot J.

[vicupstate]

I could see supporting taking the ramps down regardless, if the difference in maintenance costs (ramps vs. at grade) was substantial over a 30-50 year period.  The ramps are a jarring and disjointed feature of the area that won't be missed in that respect. The pedestrian/bicycle and related aspect of the new at grade road seem to be lacking though, but that could be corrected. 

[thelakelander]

^You may not fully understand what they have planned. In general, taking the ramp down and converting the area to an Embarcadero type complete street would be a great idea.  However, that's not what they're doing. It's amazing how we find ways to screw up good ideas. The plan is to take the middle of the ramp down to create an at-grade signalized intersection to make Lot J accessible to all expressway traffic. On either side of the new two signals will be ramps back to the existing elevated structures. If anything, it's a frogger type situation that's dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists and likely screws with free flow expressway travel during special events at the stadium. IMO, if we're taking the ramp down, take all of it down and replace it with a nice multimodal boulevard connecting the Sports District to the Northbank. It would cost more upfront but provide more long term economic benefit and multimodal safety enhancements.

[vicupstate]

I never saw any sense in maintaining any section of the ramps if a demo was planned for any part of them, but assumed any reduction is better than none. 

[thelakelander]

Here's the plan:

1) New interchange at A. Philip Randolph Boulevard since ramps west of Lot J will remain open to traffic


2) At-grade, the existing Gator Bowl Boulevard will remain with a new traffic signal installed to give access to Lot J. On the south side of Gator Bowl Boulevard, a wider sidewalk will be constructed. On the northside, everything that is there today will remain.


3) Near WJCT, a second signal will be installed with an unorthodox way for pedestrians to maneuver between all the travel lanes.


In general, on either side of those lights, you'll have vehicles coming down ramps at higher speeds, likely gunning it to make it through the two green lights before going back up on the existing expressway segments on either end. Given these conditions, it would make sense to either...

A. Skip the interchange at A. Philip Randolph and permanently close the elevated section near Maxwell House. This is the cheapest option (other than a no-build) that would also benefit the Northbank, in addition to the Sports District. Curry and Hughes love demolishing things. Focus on that instead of buildings.

B. Channelize the high speed at-grade section that is proposed from pedestrians and cyclist. Channelization will stop potential jay-walking. However, a grade separated crossing for pedestrians and cyclist would be needed at some point.

[Charles Hunter]

It appears the second of the new interchanges will displace at least part of the FL/GA RV City location.  As this is a popular, and likely money-making, part of FL/GA week, those RV spaces will need to be replaced, somewhere.

[Captain Zissou]

This looks so terrible.  I would rather they bulldoze the portion of the elevated roadways for Khan's property and then just put launch ramps on either side for cars on the Hart expressway.  Install large "Must be driving 100+ MPH to clear the gap" signs so that drivers know the appropriate speed. 

That would be much safer for pedestrians, in my opinion.

[thelakelander]

In general, removal of the ramps does open the area up for more economic development opportunity. Across the country there great examples of this. Unfortunately, I really do believe these guys are in, over their heads when it comes to downtown. Many of the negative design issues on this project could have been worked out with more public engagement and transparency during the conceptual planning process. Instead, you got a design where major decisions were pre-determined behind closed doors, leading to a substandard but still expensive, outcome. When you think about it, pretty much a similar process and result with the city hall annex/county courthouse site, Landing demolition, Berkman 2 deal, JEA sale attempt, privatizing downtown parking, etc. Attempting to play chess when you don't even understand how to play checkers but too stubborn to admit it.

[acme54321]

The interchanges seem absurd.   

On the west end make the ramps pedestrian only, demo it back to Adams Street or somewhere behind Intuition with a simple spiral spiral or switchback ramp down to the street.  That big fill ramp up at the end of A Phillip Randolph is going to look horrible.

On the east end why can't they just tee into the curve on Gator Bowl?

[Kerry]

LOL - was anyone really expecting anything different?  The good news, none of this will ever happen.

[Peter Griffin]

LOL - was anyone really expecting anything different?  The good news, none of this will ever happen.

Construction on the bridge removal will begin this year.

[thelakelander]

Yeah, the way it has gone in the past, we'll spend millions razing the middle of an expressway to construct this, while the JEA fallout will sink Lot J. A decade from now, a new crop of residents will be asking who's dumb idea was it to take down an expressway for a stop light entering the surface parking lot of TIAA Bank Field.

[Snaketoz]

When those ramps were built, everyone I know who had to go downtown every day loved them.  They were too good to be true.  Now, they want to tear them down for "economic development"  Won't that hinder traffic travelling to the Landing, City Hall, and the Court House?  Oh yeah, those are gone.  The plan to further separate the CBD and Khanburgh is moving right along.  It's a good thing Jacksonville's leaders aren't in Egypt.  I'm sure they would want to demolish the Pyramids for some scheme to better the economy of Giza.