Challenges and Opportunities for Jax's Tourism Market

[Steve]

You do realize that 'medical tourism', people traveling to Jacksonville for extended periods of time to receive treatments in Jacksonville-based medical facilities... is different than booking medical conventions, which is the initiative you are quoting. 

Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville. To even remotely criticize this niche, is patently absurd.  This is not the first, and very sadly, not the last time you'll dive into a subject in which you clearly know nothing about and completely conflate issues.

I say this as someone that has put together financing for the construction of these medical facilities, and various housing/lodging options to serve these patients and their families. 

Also, if you can consistently reach a 75% hotel occupancy rate... I'll gladly finance that as well.  That's a very healthy number.

I wasn't criticizing it.  I was asking if the 2018 article about it was referencing the 2008 initiative or if there was a new one.

It turns out it was the 2008 version.  If you cared to read the website put together as part of that effort you would see that it hasn't been updated since 2015 as it talks about future meetings coming to Jax in 2016.

It might be a big thing, but it clearly isn't a current priority for VisitJax.  Hell, the entire page directed at patients and their families is blank.

Okay - NOW I am criticizing it.

Don't worry. We know you're on it and will be much better with you involved.  Seriously - is your goal just to criticize something and just change topics once you're proven wrong until you find something that you may have a point on? You're like a forum version of a Patent Troll.

You are correct that Visit Jacksonville should either put the money/resources into the website or take it down - I won't argue with you.

Want to get back on the Hotel Occupancy Rate or have you moved on since you criticized something you clearly had no idea about?

Sorry for venting man, but the schtick gets tiring after a while of just constant negativity about things you're not right about. Then when you through dumb luck land on something you're actually correct about you jump on it like you knew what you were talking about the entire time.

[Kerry]

Sorry for the delay in responding - busy evening last night.  Anyhow...I was just responding to the flow of the conversation.  If you want to stick with hotel occupancy I'm good with that.  With the information provided by others it actually does look like Jax has a respectable overall occupancy rate when compared to many cities on the list.  However, that raises additional questions for me.

Well clearly you're not, but here are some comparable figures:

Hotel occupancy rates from 2018 unless otherwise noted:

Asheville (2017): 65.5%
Greenville: 66%
Indianapolis: 70%
Tampa: 74.1%
Nashville: 75%
Miami: 76.7%
Atlanta (projected): 77%
Orlando: 78.1 (2019 YTD)
Charleston:  78.9%
National average: 66.2%

Obviously we're is in a death spiral.

What is contained in those numbers?  In many cities, Airbnb is now considered a hotel room and they have to pay the bed tax.  Do these occupancy numbers contain Airbnb units?  Also, many cities DON'T count hotel rooms if the occupant pays by the month or week or stays there longer than 30 consecutive days.  4 years ago I actually got refunded all the hotel bed tax because I rented the same hotel room for 9 months.  When inquired as to why I was told the City didn't consider me a tourist after 15 days so I wasn't subject to the bed tax.  Are those nuances enough to move annual numbers?  In cities where Airbnb pays the bed tax it certainly could.

Here is a list of jurisdiction where Airbnb has to pay the hotel/motel bed tax.  Duval County isn't one of them although the State of Florida does charge a fee.

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2509/in-what-areas-is-occupancy-tax-collection-and-remittance-by-airbnb-available

Now having said that, I'm not really concerned or even care about city-wide occupancy.  Occupancy at the hotels on Airport Road mean zero to me.  My focus has always been on the urban core.

How many downtown hotel rooms does Jax have and what is the occupancy rate of those hotels?  As near as I can tell there are just under 2400 downtown hotel rooms.  By comparison, downtown Charlotte had 2200 rooms under construction in 2017 alone and the Uptown district of Charlotte has almost 6,000 rooms.  I can't find numbers for the other areas of Charlotte's urban core.  For the record, downtown OKC has 4,547 rooms completed or under construction and Greenville has about 2200 completed with 3 new hotels under construction.

My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.

[bl8jaxnative]

"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"

What are the metrics for booming? 

How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?

[thelakelander]

Now having said that, I'm not really concerned or even care about city-wide occupancy.  Occupancy at the hotels on Airport Road mean zero to me.  My focus has always been on the urban core.

How many downtown hotel rooms does Jax have and what is the occupancy rate of those hotels?  As near as I can tell there are just under 2400 downtown hotel rooms.  By comparison, downtown Charlotte had 2200 rooms under construction in 2017 alone and the Uptown district of Charlotte has almost 6,000 rooms.  I can't find numbers for the other areas of Charlotte's urban core.  For the record, downtown OKC has 4,547 rooms completed or under construction and Greenville has about 2200 completed with 3 new hotels under construction.

My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.

I don't have a dog in this hotel occupancy fight but if comparing the cores of cities, you'll need to drill down on context and scale. Charlotte is on the scale of Orlando. The absolute numbers of an urban core serving a MSA of 2.5 million should drawf the urban core serving a significantly smaller MSA like Jax's. So without context, mentioning it is more of an apples to oranges comparison at this point:

MSA 2018 Population Estimates:

2,572,692 - Orlando (22nd largest MSA) +20.53% (growth % change since 2010)
2,569,213 - Charlotte (23) +15.89%
2,518,213 - San Antonio (24) +17.53%

1,576,113 - Milwaukee (39) +1.30%
1,534,701 - Jacksonville (40) +14.05%
1,396,445 - Oklahoma City (41) +11.45%

Now OKC is a great place to compare, considering the scale of the MSA. However, you'll need to dig for the apples to apples numbers for both cities to get a better read on how they stack up in comparison. Then you'll need to do the same for a few more places of similar scale across the country to truly see how both rank within their peer grouping.

[Tacachale]

Sorry for the delay in responding - busy evening last night.  Anyhow...I was just responding to the flow of the conversation.  If you want to stick with hotel occupancy I'm good with that.  With the information provided by others it actually does look like Jax has a respectable overall occupancy rate when compared to many cities on the list.  However, that raises additional questions for me.

Well clearly you're not, but here are some comparable figures:

Hotel occupancy rates from 2018 unless otherwise noted:

Asheville (2017): 65.5%
Greenville: 66%
Indianapolis: 70%
Tampa: 74.1%
Nashville: 75%
Miami: 76.7%
Atlanta (projected): 77%
Orlando: 78.1 (2019 YTD)
Charleston:  78.9%
National average: 66.2%

Obviously we're is in a death spiral.

What is contained in those numbers?  In many cities, Airbnb is now considered a hotel room and they have to pay the bed tax.  Do these occupancy numbers contain Airbnb units?  Also, many cities DON'T count hotel rooms if the occupant pays by the month or week or stays there longer than 30 consecutive days.  4 years ago I actually got refunded all the hotel bed tax because I rented the same hotel room for 9 months.  When inquired as to why I was told the City didn't consider me a tourist after 15 days so I wasn't subject to the bed tax.  Are those nuances enough to move annual numbers?  In cities where Airbnb pays the bed tax it certainly could.

Here is a list of jurisdiction where Airbnb has to pay the hotel/motel bed tax.  Duval County isn't one of them although the State of Florida does charge a fee.

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2509/in-what-areas-is-occupancy-tax-collection-and-remittance-by-airbnb-available

Now having said that, I'm not really concerned or even care about city-wide occupancy.  Occupancy at the hotels on Airport Road mean zero to me.  My focus has always been on the urban core.

How many downtown hotel rooms does Jax have and what is the occupancy rate of those hotels?  As near as I can tell there are just under 2400 downtown hotel rooms.  By comparison, downtown Charlotte had 2200 rooms under construction in 2017 alone and the Uptown district of Charlotte has almost 6,000 rooms.  I can't find numbers for the other areas of Charlotte's urban core.  For the record, downtown OKC has 4,547 rooms completed or under construction and Greenville has about 2200 completed with 3 new hotels under construction.

My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.

Dude, you brought up Jax's hotel occupancy as a sign that we're struggling. Clearly by your own initial argument that's not the case. I really don't care to dig down into all those other conditions as it doesn't appear we have any reason to be concerned in this area versus other areas where we really are struggling.

[Peter Griffin]

My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.

That was NOT your point, your point was that 75% occupancy was nothing to brag about, which was more or less shown to be incorrect. Now you've spun even more BS about "hmm haw well maybe we consider Air BnB and downtown and also I don't care about hotel occupancy but some other city has more hotels and so really I was right all along you see"

Conceding that your statement was unfounded/proven wrong is really freeing, bro, maybe try it some time. Humble pie tastes surprisingly good, IMHO

[Captain Zissou]

KenFSU will have more specific numbers, since this is part of his actual job, but I think the vacancy rate is much lower for downtown Jax than the city as a whole.  We are probably undeserved as far as number of rooms, but there are hundreds if not 1,000+ rooms proposed for the urban core.

[Kerry]

My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.

That was NOT your point, your point was that 75% occupancy was nothing to brag about, which was more or less shown to be incorrect. Now you've spun even more BS about "hmm haw well maybe we consider Air BnB and downtown and also I don't care about hotel occupancy but some other city has more hotels and so really I was right all along you see"

Conceding that your statement was unfounded/proven wrong is really freeing, bro, maybe try it some time. Humble pie tastes surprisingly good, IMHO

I just did that.

With the information provided by others it actually does look like Jax has a respectable overall occupancy rate when compared to many cities on the list.

I'll wait...

Conceding that your statement was unfounded/proven wrong is really freeing, bro, maybe try it some time. Humble pie tastes surprisingly good, IMHO

[fieldafm]

"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"

What are the metrics for booming? 

How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?

Well that scenario is the definition of medical tourism.

[Kerry]

"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"

What are the metrics for booming? 

How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?

I thought the same thing but didn't want to be accused of changing the subject.  I'm not sure what Medical Tourism in the US even means unless they strictly mean people attending medical related conferences and not the actual patients.  I know people go to Costa Rica and other places to get low-cost or in many cases, banned in the US procedures but I doubt Mayo and the others are providing low-cost or banned procedures.

[fieldafm]

"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"

What are the metrics for booming? 

How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?

I thought the same thing but didn't want to be accused of changing the subject.  I'm not sure what Medical Tourism in the US even means unless they strictly mean people attending medical related conferences and not the actual patients.  I know people go to Costa Rica and other places to get low-cost or in many cases, banned in the US procedures but I doubt Mayo and the others are providing low-cost or banned procedures.

People travel from all around the world to be treated at places like Mayo, MD Anderson, UF Health Proton Therapy, Ackerman Cancer Center, etc.
That's called medical tourism. People travel for quality care... not just for the cheapest care.



This is Mayo's newest $144 million, 120,000 square foot expansion. They are also about to build a new proton therapy treatment center that will cost north of $200million

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/the-story-of-bringing-mayo-clinic-to-jacksonville/

Here is the brand new, $180 million, 332,000 square feet MD Anderson Cancer Center built in San Marco




Here is the $30 million Ackerman Cancer Center in Mandarin... the first private-practice proton therapy center in the world.




You don't need to look very hard to see the signs of a booming medical tourism industry in Jax.

[acme54321]

"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"

What are the metrics for booming? 

How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?

I thought the same thing but didn't want to be accused of changing the subject.  I'm not sure what Medical Tourism in the US even means unless they strictly mean people attending medical related conferences and not the actual patients.  I know people go to Costa Rica and other places to get low-cost or in many cases, banned in the US procedures but I doubt Mayo and the others are providing low-cost or banned procedures.

If you are travelling somewhere specifically to get a medical procedure, for whatever reason, it's medical tourism.

[Kerry]

Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.

[Peter Griffin]

Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.

holy shit dude it's ALWAYS something, isn't it?

[Kerry]

Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.

holy shit dude it's ALWAYS something, isn't it?

Yeah, if it was me I think I would come up with a term a little more human-oriented and not so much like they are a product, especially when they are seeking life-saving treatments and not cosmetic/elective surgeries.  Memphis must be tickled pink with all their medical tourist at St. Judes.  If one of my family members were in need of life-saving medical care in another city and someone described them as a medical tourist I would probably punch them right in the mouth and tell them to enjoy their vacation to the ER.