Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa

[Charles Hunter]

^ Exhibit "A" - there is a 6' chain link fence down the median of the Arlington Expressway.  People cross it all the time, sometimes leading to pedestrian injuries and fatalities.

[ProjectMaximus]

They are trying to work out a stop in Boca Raton as well.

I live down here in Palm Beach County now & hadn't heard about that one.  The potential Boca station I've read about recently would be a new Tri-Rail station on the CSX tracks, off Military Trail just south of Glades Road.  But that whole Midtown Boca area is in the middle of a big fight between the city and a large developer trying to bring residential to an exclusively commercial district.

You're absolutely right. There is zero plans for Brightline to put a station in Boca. Maybe the TriRail but def not on the FEC side. That being said there is plenty of room for one but it's not in the greatest area of Boca. Just north of Yamato rd FEC owns a lot of right of way.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article232903082.html

[tufsu1]

I'm not holding my breath for stops in Aventura, Boca Raton, and Port Miami by 2020

[bl8jaxnative]

^Yes, put up all the barriers and gates you want but none of it will keep someone out who wants to get around them.

You can lock you're door.  But if someone really wants in your house, they'll just break the glass reach in and unlock it.  That isn't a reason to not lock your door.

I am glad to hear you admit that there's some use to built environment.    If it's part of the picture, just be forth coming speak it and help us narrow down the part you have an issue with.

The issue with Brightline is they're operating at freeway speeds in a residential environment.  Any they're doing bupkiss to address the risks they're creating.  This isn't any different than the owner of a pool fencing in their pool.      There's a huge body of legal theory behind all this stuff.   

Running these high speed trains makes the bad situations worse.   And you're right, it's not _ONLY_ FEC and Virgin Trains USA's doing.   To my knowledge USDOT, FLDOT, city and county officials do not take into account the affect of closing crossings on non-auto traffic.   Heck, they don't even explicitly track how many pedestrian accidents occur at these closed crossings.  They are part of the issue, too.

Case in point, this spring a 74 year man was killed after being hit by a Virgin Trains USA engine.  Why?  He was tresspassing, carrying his bicycle across the tracks at this closed crossing.

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.2108636,-80.1313044,3a,37.5y,279.37h,92.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJKXkngfCOM0wmZYv3tKAeQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There isn't a place to legally cross the tracks for 2 1/2 miles.  SO this poor elderly man does what any logical person would do.  They take the risk of crossing the tracks to avoid the detour.    And why not, it's wide open.  THERE IS NOT EVEN A SINGLE NO TRESPASSING SIGN.

A couple hundred feet on both sides of the tracks at this closed crossing would eliminate the vast majority of tresspassing.  That's right, it's not a cure-all.  But security isn't something you do ONLY if it's 100% affective.  YOu do it to reduce risks. 

Simple improvements like this would have in all likelihood eliminated more than half of the Brightline's deaths.   We could reduce it even further with pedestrian bridges or, a concept that FRA / USDOT doesn't really have, pedestrian crossings.

A 74 year old man is dead because he took a short cut.  But we also lost a good, kind elderly man because FLDOT, Virgin Trains USA, FEC, Broward County and others have all taken short cuts too. 


https://www.local10.com/news/florida/broward/man-struck-killed-by-train-in-pompano-beach-identified
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/pompano-beach/fl-ne-pompano-brightline-fatality-20190412-story.html

[thelakelander]

I am glad to hear you admit that there's some use to built environment.    If it's part of the picture, just be forth coming speak it and help us narrow down the part you have an issue with.

The issue with Brightline is they're operating at freeway speeds in a residential environment.  Any they're doing bupkiss to address the risks they're creating.  This isn't any different than the owner of a pool fencing in their pool.      There's a huge body of legal theory behind all this stuff.

There's a big difference here. I'm not aware of the maximum speed limit being increased in South Florida. Also, what you have is a railroad being in place first, and then development being allowed to built around the corridor in modern times. So the part of your position I don't necessarily agree with is placing the burden on Brightline. Seems like local government should be funding many of the things you're concerned with....like extra grade separated crossings, etc. While the death is tragic, I don't believe you can blame Brightline for the accident. What is Pompano Beach doing to resolve the issues within its limits?

[MusicMan]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article233294042.html


https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190815/new-virgin-trains-usa-is-rebuilding-nearly-all-of-loxahatchee-river-bridge

[thelakelander]

Cool. Rebuilding that bridge will cost a pretty penny. They're also building a grade separated crossing for SR 404/Pineda Causeway near one of my study corridors in Brevard County. We're trying to get a better read on that one right now to see how it impacts the surrounding arterial road network.

[acme54321]

They're also completely replacing the 1600ft long bridge over the Sebastian River.  There are probably more too since these bridges are all similar construction.

[bl8jaxnative]

I am glad to hear you admit that there's some use to built environment.    If it's part of the picture, just be forth coming speak it and help us narrow down the part you have an issue with.

The issue with Brightline is they're operating at freeway speeds in a residential environment.  Any they're doing bupkiss to address the risks they're creating.  This isn't any different than the owner of a pool fencing in their pool.      There's a huge body of legal theory behind all this stuff.

There's a big difference here. I'm not aware of the maximum speed limit being increased in South Florida. Also, what you have is a railroad being in place first, and then development being allowed to built around the corridor in modern times. So the part of your position I don't necessarily agree with is placing the burden on Brightline. Seems like local government should be funding many of the things you're concerned with....like extra grade separated crossings, etc. While the death is tragic, I don't believe you can blame Brightline for the accident. What is Pompano Beach doing to resolve the issues within its limits?

The issue of closing crossings is not 100% the railroad's issue.  Nevertheless, it doesn't change the reality that it is _RECKLESS_ and _FOOLISH_ to operate at freeway speeds in a dense urban environment WITHOUT added safety measures.

In this case all the railroad would need to do is spend $1k, likely half that, to put up a simple fence for a 120'.  That's it.  Temptation to tresspass to cross all but gone.

[Charles Hunter]

If people want to cross a fenced right-of-way, they will.  FDOT put a fence down the median of the Arlington Expressway many years ago - to cut down on car vs. pedestrian accidents.  They are still happening, as pedestrians continue to cross the road, either climbing or cutting the fence.

[jcjohnpaint]

Saw 2 kids running across the Arlington exp yesterday.

[bl8jaxnative]

Are you arguing that FDOT should be removing the fences from the Arlington Expressway?

[Peter Griffin]

Are you arguing that FDOT should be removing the fences from the Arlington Expressway?

obviously not, and you know that. they're saying that the fences are ineffective, but you already knew that. snarkyness is so hip these days!

[bl8jaxnative]

That's the thing.  It's not snark.  I am saying fences are EFFECTIVE.

I am asking if they're seriously claiming that an edge case, an outlier is proof of something being ineffective.  It's doltish but they may think so.  Heck, you PG may think so given you're desire to side with that sort of rhetoric.


You are claiming that because of an outlier, something should not be done at all.  If that's the case, go ahead, stop locking your door.  Someone with the will to get in will still get in.

If someone is hell bent on getting on the tracks, they will.  No one is denying that.

The issue isn't 100% ending but removing the 93% of the problem where it's quite simple.   A couple hundred feet of chain link at closed xing will prevent most people from tresspassing.  They'll just go to the next easiest spot.

Case in point, this spring a 74 year man was killed after being hit by a Virgin Trains USA engine.  Why?  He was tresspassing, carrying his bicycle across the tracks at this closed crossing.

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.2108636,-80.1313044,3a,37.5y,279.37h,92.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJKXkngfCOM0wmZYv3tKAeQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


He's carrying a bicycle.  He would've just biked 5 - 10 minutes to the south and used the grade crossing.  He tresspassed because it's easier. 

[MusicMan]

Can we apply your logic to an assault weapons ban? If we didn't have 20 or 30 million assault weapons in circulation, wouldn't we ALL be safer?