Jacksonville to Buffalo: Show us how to revive our city

[thelakelander]

By Jonathan D. Epstein

How's this for an about-face? A group from a fast-growing Sun Belt city have come to Buffalo to see what's happening here to revive downtown.

For years, it was Buffalo officials who were trekking across the country in search of initiatives that succeeded elsewhere that could be tried here.

But now, it's a group from Jacksonville, Fla., who have flown to Buffalo to see if any of the things that have been done here to breathe new life into downtown could be duplicated in their city.

"There's lots of change here in Buffalo from what we hear. It's in a period of growth," said Leah Goodwyne, director of communications for JAX Chamber, the Jacksonville chamber of commerce. "There are definitely parallels between Buffalo and Jacksonville, so we wanted to come and take a look at those."

Jacksonville, for instance, wants more people living downtown. Buffalo's downtown population, now about the same size as Jacksonville's at a little more than 5,000, grew by almost 15% from 2012 to 2017.

Full Article: https://buffalonews.com/2019/07/31/jacksonville-to-buffalo-show-us-how-to-revive-our-city/

[Steve]

Maybe Bills fans won't light our city on fire the next time the Jags beat them in the playoffs:)

Seriously though....the message they need to get is clustering and density. The 5,000 number (or 10,000) number is great if they are all walking distance to one another. Not great if they are stretched from the Stadium to Riverside Ave.

[vicupstate]

These trips are nothing new for the Jacksonville group. The Jacksonville chamber has organized trips for the last six years to allow the city's business and civic leaders to take a look at what's happening in other cities that are grappling with the same type of issues.

Six years my ass. More like 16 or 26.  The only way it is six, is if they skipped one year, seven years ago. A first grader when they did the first one would at least be in college by now.

They have done trips all over the place and nothing ever comes from any of them.

[Kerry]

Holy **** - are our civic and business leaders shut-ins or something?  Can they not see how other cities are re-urbanizing by simply going on vacation?  I would love to see the list of vacation destinations (or even weekend getaways) from our top 20 elected officials because it seems like they never get out of Duval County (unless it is on Khan's private plane).  I mean hells-bells - drive to any number of cities within 10 hours of Jax and you can see it first hand.  You don't need a damned guided tour to figure it out.

[Steve]

Holy **** - are our civic and business leaders shut-ins or something?  Can they not see how other cities are re-urbanizing by simply going on vacation?  I would love to see the list of vacation destinations (or even weekend getaways) from our top 20 elected officials because it seems like they never get out of Duval County (unless it is on Khan's private plane).  I mean hells-bells - drive to any number of cities within 10 hours of Jax and you can see it first hand.  You don't need a damned guided tour to figure it out.

I see both sides of this. I can see these trips being valuable, but in the past they haven't been. So should they stop? I think that's sort of like saying, "that school has been a failing school for 15 years, let's close it."

They SHOULD be focusing on things like programs to entice development, strategies they used to build market interest, etc. I do believe it's helpful to talk to those people. I'm hopeful that Brian Wolfburg of VyStar had a strong hand in this one (he connected the cities). He definitely seems to get it in terms of urban development (look at VyStar's downtown investment).

Now, the problem is we don't understand the little things that make things work. For example, compare our river walk to San Antonio's. Yes, there's a sidewalk along both rivers, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

Clearly Curry doesn't get it, but a trip like that won't help him anyway. The goal is hopefully to take a few little things out of it to make an impact here.

[Kerry]

It is 2019 - we don't need to send City leaders to other cities to see how it was done.  All they need to do is invite Jeff Speck, Charles Mahron, James Kunstler, or Andres Duany to come speak - or pick up a freaking book and read the darn thing.  Hell, if they would promise to read it I would personally buy them a copy of selected reading material at my own expense.  The New Urbanism movement (CNU) also has thousands of videos on YouTube they can watch for free.  The University of Miami offers a certificate program in New Urbanism and they will even come to Jax to give the class to everyone in City Hall.  They can also join StrongTowns or Shoupistas on Facebook.  Finally, they can join CNU (Congress for the New Urbanism) and go to their annual convention (it was just in Savannah last year).  Urbanization isn't a secret.

www.cnu.org
https://www.jeffspeck.com/
https://kunstler.com/
https://www.dpz.com/
https://mredu.arc.miami.edu/events-and-activities/new-urbanism-online/index.html
https://www.strongtowns.org/

[Steve]

It is 2019 - we don't need to send City leaders to other cities to see how it was done.  All they need to do is invite Jeff Speck, Charles Mahron, James Kunstler, or Andres Duany to come speak - or pick up a freaking book and read the darn thing.  Hell, if they would promise to read it I would personally buy them a copy of selected reading material at my own expense.  The New Urbanism movement (CNU) also has thousands of videos on YouTube they can watch for free.  The University of Miami offers a certificate program in New Urbanism and they will even come to Jax to give the class to everyone in City Hall.  They can also join StrongTowns or Shoupistas on Facebook.  Finally, they can join CNU (Congress for the New Urbanism) and go to their annual convention (it was just in Savannah last year).  Urbanization isn't a secret.

www.cnu.org
https://www.jeffspeck.com/
https://kunstler.com/
https://www.dpz.com/
https://mredu.arc.miami.edu/events-and-activities/new-urbanism-online/index.html
https://www.strongtowns.org/

As someone who travels for work as part of their job, while I understand your point I do think there's an aspect to seeing something and talking to people in person. I'm frustrated that continuously miss on the right things to look at, but I'd view dumping the trips entirely as throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Charles Hunter]

From the article
To do that, Jacksonville wants more apartments in its downtown area, something that is slowly happening in Buffalo with the recent flurry of projects to turn older buildings into residential properties.

We have some of that, with the Barnett and Trio. But, need to get plans in place on the soon to be form (maybe) JEA Building, and the Old Independent Life Building (near the Fed. Court House) before Wrecking Ball Curry takes them down.

[ProjectMaximus]

The trip has always to me seemed much more about networking amongst power players than anything else.

[vicupstate]

while I understand your point I do think there's an aspect to seeing something and talking to people in person.

How many times does it take?  The same people are invited to these things every year.  Surely by the third time, the thought 'gee, we are  decades behind on this stuff, maybe we should do something' would occur to them. 

The trip has always to me seemed much more about networking amongst power players than anything else.

The trip has always to me seemed much more about a discounted vacation for power players than anything else. Don't these people already know each other?

[Steve]

while I understand your point I do think there's an aspect to seeing something and talking to people in person.

How many times does it take?  The same people are invited to these things every year.  Surely by the third time, the thought 'gee, we are  decades behind on this stuff, maybe we should do something' would occur to them. 

The trip has always to me seemed much more about networking amongst power players than anything else.

The trip has always to me seemed much more about a discounted vacation for power players than anything else. Don't these people already know each other?

Perhaps the wrong people are going then. I'm not advocating for the specific people that go. My point is simply that seeing something in person and talking to people face to face can be valuable. Not that the trips are working at present.

[tufsu1]

These trips are nothing new for the Jacksonville group. The Jacksonville chamber has organized trips for the last six years to allow the city's business and civic leaders to take a look at what's happening in other cities that are grappling with the same type of issues.

Six years my ass. More like 16 or 26.  The only way it is six, is if they skipped one year, seven years ago. A first grader when they did the first one would at least be in college by now.

They have been doing the downtown focused summer trip for six years - it was started when Tony Allegretti joined the Chamber

[vicupstate]

These trips are nothing new for the Jacksonville group. The Jacksonville chamber has organized trips for the last six years to allow the city's business and civic leaders to take a look at what's happening in other cities that are grappling with the same type of issues.

Six years my ass. More like 16 or 26.  The only way it is six, is if they skipped one year, seven years ago. A first grader when they did the first one would at least be in college by now.

They have been doing the downtown focused summer trip for six years - it was started when Tony Allegretti joined the Chamber

Nope. They may have called it something different but they have been doing theses for some time.

https://www.jacksonville.com/business/2009-10-09/story/kcs-downtown-provides-model-jacksonville-leadership-group

[avonjax]

Waste of time. They will come back and sit back on their butts and plan the next trip.

[Snaketoz]

It is 2019 - we don't need to send City leaders to other cities to see how it was done.  All they need to do is invite Jeff Speck, Charles Mahron, James Kunstler, or Andres Duany to come speak - or pick up a freaking book and read the darn thing.  Hell, if they would promise to read it I would personally buy them a copy of selected reading material at my own expense.  The New Urbanism movement (CNU) also has thousands of videos on YouTube they can watch for free.  The University of Miami offers a certificate program in New Urbanism and they will even come to Jax to give the class to everyone in City Hall.  They can also join StrongTowns or Shoupistas on Facebook.  Finally, they can join CNU (Congress for the New Urbanism) and go to their annual convention (it was just in Savannah last year).  Urbanization isn't a secret.

www.cnu.org
https://www.jeffspeck.com/
https://kunstler.com/
https://www.dpz.com/
https://mredu.arc.miami.edu/events-and-activities/new-urbanism-online/index.html
https://www.strongtowns.org/

There are few people here that are more critical of our state and local government than me.  I think urbanization is fine where it is and where it's wanted.  There are millions of us who prefer less density.  I don't want to live in a sardine society.  I like space.  I don't want the noise and chaos of cities like New York, Mexico City, Tokyo, Shanghai, etc.  Just so you can walk to a deli?  That would be so foreign to most of us.  If you like urbanism, walkable convenience, density, move to one of those places.  In my lifetime I've had so many friends complain about Jacksonville and move away.  More likely than not, most have moved back.  Me included.  Not for the density, I moved away because to me, it was getting too busy!  That's right, I want it like Mayberry.  Spread is beautiful. I have huge oaks, an acre on a creek, quiet neighborhood, and it's devine.  Be careful of what you wish for.