Are You Okay Investing $233 Million For Lot J?

[Kerry]

We all get "why" right?  Gotta keep the team here, and this (and stadium renovations in the near future) is what it is going to take.

This is a terrible deal for the city, but its what needs to happen to keep the team here.

Yep.  100% correct.  I don't think the Jags are worth it.

[jaxlongtimer]

Let's see... we can't afford to spend $1 million on an election to maintain safe and secure schools (that are spending that much every 2 months on repairs until they are updated) but we do have over $200 million to support a billionaire and keep his football team?  And do so by gifting him a "new central business district" to compete with the struggling one we already have?  Mayor Curry is right.  We won't recognize downtown when he ends his term... we won't even be able to find it.

Prioritizing football over educating our kids.  And we wonder why our crime rate is so high!

P.S. Note, the biggest give away of all:  I have read that Curry also got Rick Scott to select the census tract including the stadium, over much more deserving tracts, to create a Federal opportunity zone for Shad's project.  As such, he may also never pay income tax on the millions to billions in profits he may gain on this project.

What a deal... City money, no significant risks accruing to the developer, no property taxes, no income taxes, keeps all the upside.  Wonder if Curry's next job will be on the payroll of Shad?

[Fallen Buckeye]

I just started a petition on Change.org to tell City Council to reject the proposed incentive package. Please share: http://chng.it/SJHYPdFv

[vicupstate]

Curry is giving away the store. No city in their right mind would sign off on this deal.

[Kerry]

Curry is giving away the store. No city in their right mind would sign off on this deal.

So it is a lock then.

[Adam White]

We all get "why" right?  Gotta keep the team here, and this (and stadium renovations in the near future) is what it is going to take.

This is a terrible deal for the city, but its what needs to happen to keep the team here.

Yep.  100% correct.  I don't think the Jags are worth it.

Jacksonville reminds me of the battered woman who sticks with her man and swears that, in spite of the repeated beatings, he's a 'good man' who loves her.

[Kerry]

Reading through the comments on several "pro-Jags" facebook pages there is a significant number of people who put the Jags above all other considerations (until it comes to buying a game ticket).

If Khan had asked for $1 trillion dollars and promised to build an outhouse they would still be in favor it, not because they believe a trillion dollar outhouse will revitalize downtown, but because they know the real thing at stake here is the NFL in Jax.

Everyone knows JEA, Lot J, and the Landing situation are only about keeping the Jags here.  If those don't happen the Jags leave for London as soon as they can pack their bags.  There are more than enough loopholes in the lease agreement for the Jags to just walk away.

[thelakelander]

If they want to go to London, Lot J won't stop that from happening.  Lot J is peanuts in comparison.  But yeah, a large segment will be supportive to anything Jags related. That's fine. That's what fans do.

[pierre]

Reading through the comments on several "pro-Jags" facebook pages there is a significant number of people who put the Jags above all other considerations (until it comes to buying a game ticket).

If Khan had asked for $1 trillion dollars and promised to build an outhouse they would still be in favor it, not because they believe a trillion dollar outhouse will revitalize downtown, but because they know the real thing at stake here is the NFL in Jax.

Everyone knows JEA, Lot J, and the Landing situation are only about keeping the Jags here.  If those don't happen the Jags leave for London as soon as they can pack their bags.  There are more than enough loopholes in the lease agreement for the Jags to just walk away.

I would say that this conversation has jumped the shark, but that would be an insult to The Fonz.

[Adam White]

But yeah, a large segment will be supportive to anything Jags related. That's fine. That's what fans do.

Ever hear the saying, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money?"

I find it dismaying that the very conservative population of North Florida change their stripes when it suits them. The same sort of people who vilify 'welfare queens' turn a blind eye when uber-welfare queen Shad Khan comes calling with an outstretched palm.

[Adam White]

Reading through the comments on several "pro-Jags" facebook pages there is a significant number of people who put the Jags above all other considerations (until it comes to buying a game ticket).

If Khan had asked for $1 trillion dollars and promised to build an outhouse they would still be in favor it, not because they believe a trillion dollar outhouse will revitalize downtown, but because they know the real thing at stake here is the NFL in Jax.

Everyone knows JEA, Lot J, and the Landing situation are only about keeping the Jags here.  If those don't happen the Jags leave for London as soon as they can pack their bags.  There are more than enough loopholes in the lease agreement for the Jags to just walk away.

I would say that this conversation has jumped the shark, but that would be an insult to The Fonz.

How has it jumped the shark? Kerry's comment - while obviously hyperbole - seems pretty on-point. He was basically saying that people use the fear of losing the Jaguars to justify shelling out massive amounts of public $$$.

That seems to fit with, "Are you okay investing $233 million for Lot J?"

[Snufflee]

But yeah, a large segment will be supportive to anything Jags related. That's fine. That's what fans do.

Ever hear the saying, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money?"

I find it dismaying that the very conservative population of North Florida change their stripes when it suits them. The same sort of people who vilify 'welfare queens' turn a blind eye when uber-welfare queen Shad Khan comes calling with an outstretched palm.

Crony Capitalism at its finest.

[Kerry]

But yeah, a large segment will be supportive to anything Jags related. That's fine. That's what fans do.

Ever hear the saying, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money?"

I find it dismaying that the very conservative population of North Florida change their stripes when it suits them. The same sort of people who vilify 'welfare queens' turn a blind eye when uber-welfare queen Shad Khan comes calling with an outstretched palm.

100% correct and as a fiscal conservative it really pisses me off.  Khan is a billionaire 5 times over.  He could sell his boat and pay for all this himself.  The NFL is worth untold billions.  Let them pay for their own financial security.  They don't like empty seat - put a damned competitive team on the field, lower tickets prices to the point 65,000 people want to go, and stop raping people on concession prices.  If they can't do that and make a profit then their business model is flawed and they should go the way of all the other flawed businesses.

It is okay to have nice things that the public can enjoy, and certainly pro sports teams are part of that, but there comes a time when the bulk of the benefits switches from the public at-large to the team itself. The NFL passed that threshold a long time ago.

[KenFSU]

Sounds like a portion of the project could be funded through the bed tax:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-could-use-hotel-bed-tax-to-fund-deal-lot-j-deal-finance-committee-chair-says

I'm ok with the city's $50 million contribution toward the Live! venue being propped up via bed tax, particularly if maintenance and capital upgrades are handled by Cordish (which the term sheet indicates). Without seeing any numbers, I think it's reasonable to assume that having a Cordish entertainment complex down by the stadium/arena/baseball grounds/amphitheater makes the sports complex more conducive to hosting events and more attractive to overnight visitors. In that sense, you'd hope that the Jacksonville Live! component would eventually drive enough incremental revenue to offset the costs.

That said, there's no universe where you could justify leveraging the bed tax for the rest of the development.

Could you imagine the Hyatt or the Omni handing over their bed taxes to the city, only to have them used to finance a competing hotel in the stadium district?

[Adam White]

But yeah, a large segment will be supportive to anything Jags related. That's fine. That's what fans do.

Ever hear the saying, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money?"

I find it dismaying that the very conservative population of North Florida change their stripes when it suits them. The same sort of people who vilify 'welfare queens' turn a blind eye when uber-welfare queen Shad Khan comes calling with an outstretched palm.

100% correct and as a fiscal conservative it really pisses me off.  Khan is a billionaire 5 times over.  He could sell his boat and pay for all this himself.  The NFL is worth untold billions.  Let them pay for their own financial security.  They don't like empty seat - put a damned competitive team on the field, lower tickets prices to the point 65,000 people want to go, and stop raping people on concession prices.  If they can't do that and make a profit then their business model is flawed and they should go the way of all the other flawed businesses.

It is okay to have nice things that the public can enjoy, and certainly pro sports teams are part of that, but there comes a time when the bulk of the benefits switches from the public at-large to the team itself. The NFL passed that threshold a long time ago.

I like football and, although not a Jaguars fan (I was a Dolphins fan already when the city was awarded a franchise), I can totally understand wanting an NFL team. And I can even understand making some concessions here or there. But let's be realistic about this - we can't keep throwing money at the NFL while saying there isn't enough money for necessary services. It's sad to see how out of kilter our priorities are.

I see this as a failure of leadership - and that doesn't surprise me, because Jacksonville has had a severe leadership deficit for a very long time.