10 Grass Fields To Get You Pumped For The Landing Demo

[thelakelander]

Well, as a black man with Geechee, Creek, and god knows whatever else ancestry. I see myself as too much of person to care about the different parts that me up as a whole. If I'm supposed to care, I need to be persuaded via scholarly paper. And those are few and far between.

People are so wound up in racial and social differences, that they fly right over the things we should be more concerned with as a community. We build all these fancy utopian haciendas right in the middle of flood zones. Yet, people only take notice of this when disaster strikes. Let's turn these grassy fields and derelict buildings into something that can be of use in event of a major hurricane. We want to grow the community and all that. But, where are all these people supposed to go if they can't get out? There's always congestion when people wait to hit the road at the last minute. So where can all of the hundreds of thousands of evacuees stuck in here town go if not back to their homes in flood zones? No, we don't care about that. We're only supposed to worry about racial problems, petty criminals, and crazy people in office.

Resiliency is a huge issue and it normally negatively impacts the underrepresented portions of our communities moreso than anything else. I'm involved with a project in a rural Texas community where this is a major issue with the Colorado River (what we've witnessed is child's play to what they've been put through). It should certainly be a bigger part of the planning, cultural, social and economic future of our city. Locally, public facilities like schools are what would be utilized in the case of a major disaster. IMO, a major challenge/obstacle we face is getting those homes out of flood zones or limiting the damage potential.

[Tacachale]

I'm owning up to our local history.  I'm a sixth generation No. Floridian.  I'm not proud of everything that has happened here, but I'm not blaming any particular race.  I'm proud that we've elected a black sheriff and a black mayor.  Everyone who doesn't feel safe on Dunn Ave. or the Landing isn't a racist.

Stop, you're not going to paint me into a picture of specifically calling any individual racist. I'm talking about embracing local culture and not giving in to ignorant perceptions and biases of a minority percentage of the population and using them as valid reasons to push certain types of public policies and revitalization strategies. You don't need to blow up or change Dunn Avenue because some random individual is uncomfortable of being on a side of town where the demographic makeup isn't to their liking. This has nothing to do about electing a black sheriff, mayor or whatever. I'm flat out saying that was an ignorant observation made by the bus driver and that it does not equate Dunn Avenue to being an unsafe place.

You are absolutely wrong to try to classify or critique a person's perceptions.  Perceptions are created from experience and logic.  Am I a racist because I don't want to visit Yemen?  Is it wrong to perceive zip code 32209 as dangerous?

Again, you can stop with the racist stuff, because you're pretty far off base. Yes, I am flat out saying there is a difference between reality and perception when it comes to planning, development, etc. You don't change Dunn because someone not used to that area has a certain perception based on fear and ignorance of that environment. So if applied to you....you don't like Yemen...well don't go. Yemen should not have to reinvent itself because Snaketoz doesn't want to go there. Also, perception isn't always created from experience and logic.  For 39 years, I hated oysters. I had never tried one but I didn't like the way they looked, so I didn't like them. Then I finally tried one and found out they were pretty good. I had a perception. It wasn't based on experience or logic. It was based on ignorance.

I know people from all races that feel unsafe going to the Landing.  It's not my job to second guess them.  Usually a perception is based on history, local knowledge, and being informed.

See response above. Ignorance can also a big factor in perception. Don't discount it. The personal example I gave above was a real one.

When you are walking from the Landing late at night to your car, I could care less about the race of a robber, aggressive panhandler, or sucker puncher.  I want to avoid that situation if possible.  If I (or you) were to go to certain areas and get accosted, the first thing both your and my friends and family would say is, "what the hell was he doing there?"  That's not racist, that is called street smarts.

Lol street smarts? Good lord. I have an office across the street from the Landing. I've had an office within two blocks of the Landing since 2014. I've had an office in downtown continuously since 2009. At no point have I ever felt fearful of walking in downtown late at night to my truck.....which I usually park on Laura north of State (I get it, some would we their pants) because I don't like paying for parking. If you pull the crime rates, you see downtown's are actually pretty low. If you're there on a consistent basis, you'd personally know this from experience as well. To claim that it is a high crime area when the factual statistics don't support that would be considered a perception based on ignorance.  Is it empty? Yes. Could it be better lit at night? Yes. Should it be better lit at night and filled with more businesses open at night? Of course. That's an entirely different story from perceptions largely based on racial demographics.

One big mistake we keep making in the urban core is assuming that pretty much everyone needs to feel safe and happy for it to be a success. The reality is there are a lot of folks who will basically never feel safe in an urban environment regardless of what's done (or what's possible to be done). And there are others who like the current environment just fine and want the improvements on the sames rather than "cleaning it up" with demolitions and big money one-trick ponies. Trying to please everyone really does mean pleasing no one.

In reality, we don't need to attract every suburbanite and Dunn Avenue-fearing public employees for the urban core to take off. we need to attract the people who actually want to be in an urban core. And the funny thing is, usually the more popular places get, the more they're seen as "safe".

[Kerry]

Well I guess if someone wants to open a Gullah Geechee heritage center and garlic crab bar then more power to them.  At least there would be some kind of cultural attraction besides Cummer and MOCA.

[Kerry]

I'll agree that Jax is a blank slate when it comes to that subject, but the future of Jax is not going to be built on Black Culturalism - it just isn't.  Every Indian tribe has a cultural center but the vast majority of their tourism and income is derived from casinos.  Just look at Gatlinburg, TN and Cherokee, NC.  Both are at the gateways to Great Smoky Mountains National Park.  One is a major tourist destination with millions of visitors and the other is sad and depressing.  Who knows though, maybe Cherokee was aiming for sad and depressing.  For everyone on the East Coast Cherokee is just a place you go through on the way to Gatlinburg.

On a related note - I just finished The Next American City and there was a section that talked about City Branding.  Of course I instantly tried to figure what image Jax conjured up in peoples minds and I just drew a blank.

I MUCH prefer visiting Cherokee over Gatlinburg. To each their own.

I think my original response was a bit harsh so deleted it.  Let me just say no one would rather go to Cherokee over Gatlinburg - no one.  I've been to Cherokee 4 times.  It makes me more sad everytime.

[thelakelander]

In reality, we don't need to attract every suburbanite and Dunn Avenue-fearing public employees for the urban core to take off. we need to attract the people who actually want to be in an urban core. And the funny thing is, usually the more popular places get, the more they're seen as "safe".

Other than owning your local heritage and identity, that's my basic point with the perception vs reality stuff. Especially in regards to the urban core. Worry about resolving the real issues and building a quality place for the people who want to be there.

[thelakelander]

Well I guess if someone wants to open a Gullah Geechee heritage center and garlic crab bar then more power to them.  At least there would be some kind of cultural attraction besides Cummer and MOCA.

I kind of look at things this way. I believe, based off professional experience in this industry, that we'd be better off focusing on local place and culture based experiences where local businesses and residents can economically benefit in a way that strengthens Jax's unique sense of place, then continuously destroying what's unique in hopes of landing the next Cheesecake Factory. Garlic crabs, seafood, bbq, soul food, southern food, riders, more maritime related activity....bring them all on and share the historic story of why and how we got to where we're at today. For those who are comfortable with Chipotle and Starbucks, no worries, as long as there is a market, they'll still come.

[Snaketoz]

I'm owning up to our local history.  I'm a sixth generation No. Floridian.  I'm not proud of everything that has happened here, but I'm not blaming any particular race.  I'm proud that we've elected a black sheriff and a black mayor.  Everyone who doesn't feel safe on Dunn Ave. or the Landing isn't a racist.

Stop, you're not going to paint me into a picture of specifically calling any individual racist. I'm talking about embracing local culture and not giving in to ignorant perceptions and biases of a minority percentage of the population and using them as valid reasons to push certain types of public policies and revitalization strategies. You don't need to blow up or change Dunn Avenue because some random individual is uncomfortable of being on a side of town where the demographic makeup isn't to their liking. This has nothing to do about electing a black sheriff, mayor or whatever. I'm flat out saying that was an ignorant observation made by the bus driver and that it does not equate Dunn Avenue to being an unsafe place.

You are absolutely wrong to try to classify or critique a person's perceptions.  Perceptions are created from experience and logic.  Am I a racist because I don't want to visit Yemen?  Is it wrong to perceive zip code 32209 as dangerous?

Again, you can stop with the racist stuff, because you're pretty far off base. Yes, I am flat out saying there is a difference between reality and perception when it comes to planning, development, etc. You don't change Dunn because someone not used to that area has a certain perception based on fear and ignorance of that environment. So if applied to you....you don't like Yemen...well don't go. Yemen should not have to reinvent itself because Snaketoz doesn't want to go there. Also, perception isn't always created from experience and logic.  For 39 years, I hated oysters. I had never tried one but I didn't like the way they looked, so I didn't like them. Then I finally tried one and found out they were pretty good. I had a perception. It wasn't based on experience or logic. It was based on ignorance.

I know people from all races that feel unsafe going to the Landing.  It's not my job to second guess them.  Usually a perception is based on history, local knowledge, and being informed.

See response above. Ignorance can also a big factor in perception. Don't discount it. The personal example I gave above was a real one.

When you are walking from the Landing late at night to your car, I could care less about the race of a robber, aggressive panhandler, or sucker puncher.  I want to avoid that situation if possible.  If I (or you) were to go to certain areas and get accosted, the first thing both your and my friends and family would say is, "what the hell was he doing there?"  That's not racist, that is called street smarts.

Lol street smarts? Good lord. I have an office across the street from the Landing. I've had an office within two blocks of the Landing since 2014. I've had an office in downtown continuously since 2009. At no point have I ever felt fearful of walking in downtown late at night to my truck.....which I usually park on Laura north of State (I get it, some would we their pants) because I don't like paying for parking. If you pull the crime rates, you see downtown's are actually pretty low. If you're there on a consistent basis, you'd personally know this from experience as well. To claim that it is a high crime area when the factual statistics don't support that would be considered a perception based on ignorance.  Is it empty? Yes. Could it be better lit at night? Yes. Should it be better lit at night and filled with more businesses open at night? Of course. That's an entirely different story from perceptions largely based on racial demographics.

It seems you THINK everyone else's perceptions are based on racial demographics.  What I'm questioning is why you think that.  I feel safe going most everywhere.  I just don't question why others don't.  I'm not painting you into a picture of anything.  You are doing a good job of that yourself.  There are over 1 million people in the Jax metro.  Nothing you can type here is going to change people's perceptions.  You are offending many by inferring that Jacksonville's local culture is giving into ignorant perceptions and biases of minorities to do anything.  You continue to use a broad brush to paint a very narrow portion of our city.  I agree with much you say.  What I disagree with you is, it SEEMS you blame the majority for the sins of the minority.  Isn't that what racists do? 

[Tacachale]

I'll agree that Jax is a blank slate when it comes to that subject, but the future of Jax is not going to be built on Black Culturalism - it just isn't.  Every Indian tribe has a cultural center but the vast majority of their tourism and income is derived from casinos.  Just look at Gatlinburg, TN and Cherokee, NC.  Both are at the gateways to Great Smoky Mountains National Park.  One is a major tourist destination with millions of visitors and the other is sad and depressing.  Who knows though, maybe Cherokee was aiming for sad and depressing.  For everyone on the East Coast Cherokee is just a place you go through on the way to Gatlinburg.

On a related note - I just finished The Next American City and there was a section that talked about City Branding.  Of course I instantly tried to figure what image Jax conjured up in peoples minds and I just drew a blank.

I MUCH prefer visiting Cherokee over Gatlinburg. To each their own.

I think my original response was a bit harsh so deleted it.  Let me just say no one would rather go to Cherokee over Gatlinburg - no one.  I've been to Cherokee 4 times.  It makes me more sad everytime.

Lol, I just told you that I'd rather go to Cherokee, and I'm in WNC at least once every year. Cherokee has two excellent museums, a gallery for local artists, and just as good an access to the Great Smoky Mountains as Gatlinburg has. Those are things that appeal to me. Gatlinburg is a tourist trap of the type I've seen a million times in Florida. Like I said, to each their own; this is another case that proves that what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for everyone.

[Tacachale]

I'm owning up to our local history.  I'm a sixth generation No. Floridian.  I'm not proud of everything that has happened here, but I'm not blaming any particular race.  I'm proud that we've elected a black sheriff and a black mayor.  Everyone who doesn't feel safe on Dunn Ave. or the Landing isn't a racist.

Stop, you're not going to paint me into a picture of specifically calling any individual racist. I'm talking about embracing local culture and not giving in to ignorant perceptions and biases of a minority percentage of the population and using them as valid reasons to push certain types of public policies and revitalization strategies. You don't need to blow up or change Dunn Avenue because some random individual is uncomfortable of being on a side of town where the demographic makeup isn't to their liking. This has nothing to do about electing a black sheriff, mayor or whatever. I'm flat out saying that was an ignorant observation made by the bus driver and that it does not equate Dunn Avenue to being an unsafe place.

You are absolutely wrong to try to classify or critique a person's perceptions.  Perceptions are created from experience and logic.  Am I a racist because I don't want to visit Yemen?  Is it wrong to perceive zip code 32209 as dangerous?

Again, you can stop with the racist stuff, because you're pretty far off base. Yes, I am flat out saying there is a difference between reality and perception when it comes to planning, development, etc. You don't change Dunn because someone not used to that area has a certain perception based on fear and ignorance of that environment. So if applied to you....you don't like Yemen...well don't go. Yemen should not have to reinvent itself because Snaketoz doesn't want to go there. Also, perception isn't always created from experience and logic.  For 39 years, I hated oysters. I had never tried one but I didn't like the way they looked, so I didn't like them. Then I finally tried one and found out they were pretty good. I had a perception. It wasn't based on experience or logic. It was based on ignorance.

I know people from all races that feel unsafe going to the Landing.  It's not my job to second guess them.  Usually a perception is based on history, local knowledge, and being informed.

See response above. Ignorance can also a big factor in perception. Don't discount it. The personal example I gave above was a real one.

When you are walking from the Landing late at night to your car, I could care less about the race of a robber, aggressive panhandler, or sucker puncher.  I want to avoid that situation if possible.  If I (or you) were to go to certain areas and get accosted, the first thing both your and my friends and family would say is, "what the hell was he doing there?"  That's not racist, that is called street smarts.

Lol street smarts? Good lord. I have an office across the street from the Landing. I've had an office within two blocks of the Landing since 2014. I've had an office in downtown continuously since 2009. At no point have I ever felt fearful of walking in downtown late at night to my truck.....which I usually park on Laura north of State (I get it, some would we their pants) because I don't like paying for parking. If you pull the crime rates, you see downtown's are actually pretty low. If you're there on a consistent basis, you'd personally know this from experience as well. To claim that it is a high crime area when the factual statistics don't support that would be considered a perception based on ignorance.  Is it empty? Yes. Could it be better lit at night? Yes. Should it be better lit at night and filled with more businesses open at night? Of course. That's an entirely different story from perceptions largely based on racial demographics.

It seems you THINK everyone else's perceptions are based on racial demographics.  What I'm questioning is why you think that.  I feel safe going most everywhere.  I just don't question why others don't.  I'm not painting you into a picture of anything.  You are doing a good job of that yourself.  There are over 1 million people in the Jax metro.  Nothing you can type here is going to change people's perceptions.  You are offending many by inferring that Jacksonville's local culture is giving into ignorant perceptions and biases of minorities to do anything.  You continue to use a broad brush to paint a very narrow portion of our city.  I agree with much you say.  What I disagree with you is, it SEEMS you blame the majority for the sins of the minority.  Isn't that what racists do?

Another case showing that people perceive things differently. Many people consider race and equity issues among the most important issues facing us, and believe we need to confront them. Many other people aren't comfortable talking about race at all. Folks on either side don't see eye to eye.

[Kerry]

Lol, I just told you that I'd rather go to Cherokee, and I'm in WNC at least once every year. Cherokee has two excellent museums, a gallery for local artists, and just as good an access to the Great Smoky Mountains as Gatlinburg has. Those are things that appeal to me. Gatlinburg is a tourist trap of the type I've seen a million times in Florida. Like I said, to each their own; this is another case that proves that what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for everyone.

If you like it better so be it.  I think I like the idea of Cherokee better than the execution.

[Kerry]

Another case showing that people perceive things differently. Many people consider race and equity issues among the most important issues facing us, and believe we need to confront them. Many other people aren't comfortable talking about race at all. Folks on either side don't see eye to eye.

Those are the only two points of view available, those who think it is important and those afriad to talk about it?  I think most people don't understand why a significant portion of the population just can't straighten up and fly right.

[Tacachale]

Another case showing that people perceive things differently. Many people consider race and equity issues among the most important issues facing us, and believe we need to confront them. Many other people aren't comfortable talking about race at all. Folks on either side don't see eye to eye.

Those are the only two points of view available, those who think it is important and those afriad to talk about it?  I think most people don't understand why a significant portion of the population just can't straighten up and fly right.

There are infinitely more viewpoints than that, which further serves the point. You won't get everyone to agree on any one thing.

[thelakelander]

It seems you THINK everyone else's perceptions are based on racial demographics.  What I'm questioning is why you think that.

I never said everyone else's perceptions are based on racial demographics. However, the bus driver saying a middle class black area is a dangerous place that people should stay away from is certainly laced in racial undertones. If you have some crime statistical data to suggest otherwise, please share. So I'm questioning how did you translate this to mean "everyone else's perceptions"? Take it easy, you're going to stress yourself out if this is how you interpret things.

I feel safe going most everywhere.  I just don't question why others don't.  I'm not painting you into a picture of anything.  You are doing a good job of that yourself.  There are over 1 million people in the Jax metro.  Nothing you can type here is going to change people's perceptions.

I'm not out to change people's perceptions. That's a waste of time and energy, IMO. I've said this quiet a few times as well. Here is one example of what I said about the perceptions that aren't founded in reality:

Again, you can stop with the racist stuff, because you're pretty far off base. Yes, I am flat out saying there is a difference between reality and perception when it comes to planning, development, etc. You don't change Dunn because someone not used to that area has a certain perception based on fear and ignorance of that environment. So if applied to you....you don't like Yemen...well don't go. Yemen should not have to reinvent itself because Snaketoz doesn't want to go there. Also, perception isn't always created from experience and logic.  For 39 years, I hated oysters. I had never tried one but I didn't like the way they looked, so I didn't like them. Then I finally tried one and found out they were pretty good. I had a perception. It wasn't based on experience or logic. It was based on ignorance.

You are offending many by inferring that Jacksonville's local culture is giving into ignorant perceptions and biases of minorities to do anything.

I don't apologize for what I've said. I've repeatedly stated that we don't own and promote our local culture like we should. I've also pointed out several examples of this that indicate that local culture is multicultural. Our blues history is one of the examples previously stated. Did you know that one of the best blues singers ever associated with Jax's history was Gregg Allman? Your overt focus on the black side of this conversation appears to be your challenge to address with a more culturally inclusive open mind.

You continue to use a broad brush to paint a very narrow portion of our city.

You got all of this from pointing out we have some perceptions and biases we need to overcome and that we're better off ignoring perceptions that are based off ignorance instead of modifying public policy to pacify a few?

I agree with much you say.  What I disagree with you is, it SEEMS you blame the majority for the sins of the minority.  Isn't that what racists do?

As a 7th generation black Floridian, I've always understood racism to be defined as the belief in the superiority of one race over another. I wasn't aware that racists advocate for equity and inclusion. Btw, I mentioned a while back that I'm a technical and rational nexus type of guy. What majority is being blamed for the sins of the minority? And what exactly are the sins and who is the majority and the minority that you speak of?

[Snaketoz]

lakelander, I'll end this futile back and forth conversation to the delight of others here by saying that with each post you are justifying what I've said.  As far as Dunn Av is concerned, you didn't mention the race of the bus driver, or if he mentioned any race when commenting about the safety of the area.  You PERCEIVED it to be racist.  Maybe he knows the area better than you or I.
I stand up for my community when it is slandered by others.  Jacksonville isn't the only place in America that isn't perfect.  Many think we are backward, cousin marrying cretins.  Many South Floridians roll their eyes when I tell them where I'm from.  Many are from gated communities that lock everyone out of their compounds, but come out and preach about how bad we are.
Time after time you mention your race.  Never have I mentioned mine.  You say, "As a 7th generation black Floridian", I said I'm a 6th generation Floridian.  My overt focus on the black side??
Most everything you write has a racial slant.  If it isn't overt, it's inferred.  You know it too.  I'm just old and cranky enough to call you out on it.  BTW, I have a great granddaughter who is an 8th generation Floridian.  Notice, I don't mention her race.

[thelakelander]

lakelander, I'll end this futile back and forth conversation to the delight of others here by saying that with each post you are justifying what I've said.  As far as Dunn Av is concerned, you didn't mention the race of the bus driver, or if he mentioned any race when commenting about the safety of the area.  You PERCEIVED it to be racist.

I've clearly stated over and over again, I took the perception to be one of ignorance. Ignorance and racism aren't the same. Ignorance simply means lack of knowledge or information. Yet you're seriously telling me what I perceived. So at the end of the day, our back and forth literally comes down to a perception problem. Go figure!