Re-evaluating the Skyway

[GatorShane]

I totally agree that the Skyway should be extended to the Sports Complex. I do agree that a Bay Street overhead route might be harmful to future progress on that street. Her is my solution. Bring that section down to street level. Go down Bay Street and make a left on A Philip Randolph. Go between the Arena and the Baseball stadium and place a station in that corner of the fairgrounda property.

[thelakelander]

The problem with bringing the skyway down to ground level on Bay is you would eliminate southbound pedestrian and automobile traffic to the riverfront/Hyatt from all streets north of Bay.  If you're south of Bay, you would be forced to make right-only turns on Bay.

[Ocklawaha]

 

GatorShane
I totally agree that the Skyway should be extended to the Sports Complex. I do agree that a Bay Street overhead route might be harmful to future progress on that street. Her is my solution. Bring that section down to street level. Go down Bay Street and make a left on A Philip Randolph. Go between the Arena and the Baseball stadium and place a station in that corner of the fairgrounds property

Hello friend, sadly, the one major drawback of monorail is it doesn't allow for ANY at grade crossings. There is simply no way to get a car or a truck, even a pedestrian over this track even when sitting square on the ground. Take a good look at the photo above and you see how it overhangs the running rail on both sides. It "hugs" it's rail, and that hug could be as much as 2 feet wide on either side. So even if a roadway could be elevated to the top of the rail, you'll still have to deal with 2-3 foot wide running trenches on eachside penalty for falling in the crack? 440 volts of EXPOSED AC current! ZAP!


When we talk of the monorail being at ground level it will only work where there is NO CHANCE OF CROSSING IT, where it can be fenced, or where it can be controlled such as in a station.


People have so little concept of the power in those wires. Lakelander took a photo of a flexible contact lead that was simply huge (perhaps he'll post it). If you ever get the chance to tour a streetcar or monorail operations room and go into the transformer or switching room you'll never forget the electric air, the hum of the room, the hair on your arms, legs and head jumping up and standing on end. The smell of ozone. In the case of a power plant the turbines roar like a jet engine, and the entire building vibrates to their tune. If you like high horsepower autos, motorcycles, or machines of any kind, it will absolutely amaze you.


On the positive side, I don't think the Skyway has harmed the street-scape much on Bay where it currently runs. It is something of a novelty, as unique as EPCOT. There is also no reason why the stations have to look the same, or why they can't match the buildings around them. Without building all of that bridge structure and going with the economy of just the simple monorail beams, it will appear much smaller too. As for the sidewalk below, the beams give us a chance to canopy long segments of downtown sidewalk. A Teflon coated, washable canopy might even enhance the downtown street experience. Something else Lakelander and I discussed as we explored the system in the rain.

OCKLAWAHA

[brainstormer]

Excellent article guys!  I've been a fan of the skyway, despite the fact that I can rarely use it, since I moved to Jacksonville.  We have so much of the infrastructure in place it only makes sense to increase the number of destinations.  Because of this fact, it seems like expanding the skyway could possibly be the easiest and quickest improvement to our mass transit.  If we funded the expansion and started building now, couldn't we have it running in two years?  Economically it makes sense to me, and I'm betting that it would spur private development, something we need more of right now.  Let JTA know downtown residents want this to happen, and soon.

[pwhitford]

Gentlemen!

Let me add my voice to the growing chorus of praise.   This is an excellent article; highly persuasive, informative and presented with a clear and concise logic that seems irrefutable.  In light of this, only a fool would consider BRT (strike that - only a fool or the son of an oil and gasoline magnate!).

My only question is: How best to carry this agenda forward to success?  Where do we start and how can I help?

[seaside1991]

Just a minor detail, Can they change the color to Blue and Silver? The current color scheme is dated.

[jeh1980]

The problem with bringing the skyway down to ground level on Bay is you would eliminate southbound pedestrian and automobile traffic to the riverfront/Hyatt from all streets north of Bay.  If you're south of Bay, you would be forced to make right-only turns on Bay.

I would love to see the Skyway expand to the stadium district. I don't know if what I'm thinking of is a good idea or not but think of this: Just suppose if there is a way to extend the monorail car but also let it run on only a single track instead of a dual track. May save money and Bay Street won't have to eliminate any of the lanes going to the sports complex. What do you think?

[Ocklawaha]

I would love to see the Skyway expand to the stadium district. I don't know if what I'm thinking of is a good idea or not but think of this: Just suppose if there is a way to extend the monorail car but also let it run on only a single track instead of a dual track. May save money and Bay Street won't have to eliminate any of the lanes going to the sports complex. What do you think?

Hey fellow supporter! The monorail cars/trains do operate on a single track. The double track iis n place to allow the line to reach the 30,000 passengers per hour-per direction (Transit rule of thumb). It also helps the traffic flow on the railroad as there is no need to "hold one train out" while another occupies the track space.
IMO - We COULD use single track on an extension to Talleyrand Port district, a couple of blocks north of Rosa Parks, perhaps west of Rosa Parks to Edward Waters College etc... Lighter traffic lines. The stadium trunk would be nearly impossible if we want the Skyway to play a roll in moving the crowd. I'm not convinced that we would lose any traffic lanes with a Skyway extension. Seems to work fine on the Jefferson Street - Central Station line.

Keep those ideas rolling in my friends. United we WIN.

OCKLAWAHA

[Lunican]

Notice how all of the systems in this video use a simple beam, not an elevated highway. It would probably cost less to expand it to useful destinations than to tear it down.

http://www.youtube.com/v/TUoqeRADp4Q

[GatorShane]

Ock-- Thanks for the insight. I guess I never realized the problem with ground level monorail systems--Thanks!--Shane

 

GatorShane
I totally agree that the Skyway should be extended to the Sports Complex. I do agree that a Bay Street overhead route might be harmful to future progress on that street. Her is my solution. Bring that section down to street level. Go down Bay Street and make a left on A Philip Randolph. Go between the Arena and the Baseball stadium and place a station in that corner of the fairgrounds property

Hello friend, sadly, the one major drawback of monorail is it doesn't allow for ANY at grade crossings. There is simply no way to get a car or a truck, even a pedestrian over this track even when sitting square on the ground. Take a good look at the photo above and you see how it overhangs the running rail on both sides. It "hugs" it's rail, and that hug could be as much as 2 feet wide on either side. So even if a roadway could be elevated to the top of the rail, you'll still have to deal with 2-3 foot wide running trenches on eachside penalty for falling in the crack? 440 volts of EXPOSED AC current! ZAP!


When we talk of the monorail being at ground level it will only work where there is NO CHANCE OF CROSSING IT, where it can be fenced, or where it can be controlled such as in a station.


People have so little concept of the power in those wires. Lakelander took a photo of a flexible contact lead that was simply huge (perhaps he'll post it). If you ever get the chance to tour a streetcar or monorail operations room and go into the transformer or switching room you'll never forget the electric air, the hum of the room, the hair on your arms, legs and head jumping up and standing on end. The smell of ozone. In the case of a power plant the turbines roar like a jet engine, and the entire building vibrates to their tune. If you like high horsepower autos, motorcycles, or machines of any kind, it will absolutely amaze you.


On the positive side, I don't think the Skyway has harmed the street-scape much on Bay where it currently runs. It is something of a novelty, as unique as EPCOT. There is also no reason why the stations have to look the same, or why they can't match the buildings around them. Without building all of that bridge structure and going with the economy of just the simple monorail beams, it will appear much smaller too. As for the sidewalk below, the beams give us a chance to canopy long segments of downtown sidewalk. A Teflon coated, washable canopy might even enhance the downtown street experience. Something else Lakelander and I discussed as we explored the system in the rain.

OCKLAWAHA

[Coolyfett]

I feel like I am watching Mr Rogers!! Thats for the tour fellas! Good Stuff! Pretty cool man! All the extensions make sense! Even though Springfield isn't getting any love. The Eastline looks perfect! I didn't know they had such a high tech control room like that. All that stuff is in that little building across from the newspaper building? They plan to turn that building into a station? If so won't they have to build a new repair yard??

[Coolyfett]

The article makes a compelling argument.  I think a expansion to the stadium makes a lot of sense, but I think it would totally ruin the Bay Street corridor.  Could the line be moved onto the Shipyards property?  If it could not, I would suggest using a Beaver Street route to the the Stadium instead.   

OH NO!!! I don't like that! Tracks would be better on Bay Street.

On another note, what the heck is stopping them from letting vendors set up shop on some of the stations? Man that would be really really cool!!! A news/magazine stand, a coffee shop, hotdog-sausage guy, etc etc....Man you guys are really talking it up!!! Now more articles in TU & Folio would be great!!

[Coolyfett]

On the positive side, I don't think the Skyway has harmed the street-scape much on Bay where it currently runs. It is something of a novelty, as unique as EPCOT. There is also no reason why the stations have to look the same, or why they can't match the buildings around them. Without building all of that bridge structure and going with the economy of just the simple monorail beams, it will appear much smaller too. As for the sidewalk below, the beams give us a chance to canopy long segments of downtown sidewalk. A Teflon coated, washable canopy might even enhance the downtown street experience. Something else Lakelander and I discussed as we explored the system in the rain.[/color][/b]

Sounds like shaded side walks!!

[thelakelander]

I feel like I am watching Mr Rogers!! Thats for the tour fellas! Good Stuff! Pretty cool man! All the extensions make sense! Even though Springfield isn't getting any love. The Eastline looks perfect! I didn't know they had such a high tech control room like that. All that stuff is in that little building across from the newspaper building? They plan to turn that building into a station? If so won't they have to build a new repair yard??

The new station would be constructed next door to the O&M building.

[ProjectMaximus]

Can the current "Skyway" be extended using level track? Or is the technology limited to elevated tracks?

Lol, this has been addressed a dozen times in this thread and others. I'll respond now so our experts don't need to...

Skyway can be brought down lower to the ground, but it cannot have any at grade crossings. So, for visual or underpass/overpass purposes, it can be low or on the ground, but it would have to be shielded off from cars and definitely pedestrians.