Landing To Be Razed, Are Taxpayers Screwed?

[thelakelander]

After years of legal disputes and disagreements between various revitalization strategies between the City of Jacksonville and Jacksonville Landing Investments (JLI), an $18 million deal for the city to acquire and raze the underutilized marketplace has been proposed. Here are a few reasons why taxpayers should be concerned.

Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/landing-to-be-razed-are-taxpayers-screwed/

[pierre]

I was hoping the Landing could be reimagined as something similar to the Milwaukee Public Market. But it does not sound like that is possible at this point.

What we are going to be left with is a bigger version of the "park" across from the library. A shame.

[thelakelander]

We can barely keep the grass properly maintained in the space in front of the courthouse. Hemming still hasn't been updated since it was redone in the 1980s. The Main Street pocket park is homeless central. Kids Kampus (which was popular) was never maintained and destroyed. We've had green space in front of the performing arts center and done nothing with it for decades. Is Metropolitan Park still open?

A good park will also cost good money. Washington Square in Cincinnati cost $46 million in 2012. Millennium Park in Chicago was $475 million. It's hard to imagine we'd fund anything more than sod, some winding sidewalks and a few trees. Logically, people should be seriously concerned if we can do this right based on history and the surrounding context.

[Adam White]

If the choice is between the Landing as it currently is and a park...well, I don't know which I prefer. Probably a park. But as you mention, it will take money to maintain it. And let's be honest - it's likely to just turn into a nice waterfront location for Jacksonville's homeless population to hang out in.

[vicupstate]

Does anyone know how much Sleiman asked for in incentives when his "It's about Time" proposal was made in 2005. I don't remember it ever being made public, because Peyton was adamantly against the idea completely. That was always the best plan in terms of redevelopment, IMO. 

Second, was there any detail on what the two buildings shown in Curry's plan were to be or include? How tall were they?   

By any measure, the entire history of the Landing has been a total cluster and this is just the latest chapter. However, given the city is hell-bent on closing the Landing in favor of Lot J, it might be best to just be done with it, rather than let it die a slow death. The fact is, it is already in the process of doing just that.  I temper that feeling a lot though, because I know the city will probably replace it with something very sub-par and not even maintain it.   

[civil42806]

This is insane, another park that won't be maintained?

[marcuscnelson]

Toney must have read this article.

https://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2017-06-22/editorial-it-s-time-sleiman-take-buyout-and-bow-out-landing

Does anyone know how much Sleiman asked for in incentives when his "It's about Time" proposal was made in 2005. I don't remember it ever being made public, because Peyton was adamantly against the idea completely. That was always the best plan in terms of redevelopment, IMO. 

I swear there was something with a bunch of details, but I can't find it for the life of me.

Second, was there any detail on what the two buildings shown in Curry's plan were to be or include? How tall were they?

Nope!

I still can't help but laugh that we're going to watch downtown get screwed over even more because Curry can't help but ask taxpayers to hold his beer and watch this.

It's not necessarily bad to want a park, but like Lake said, we have a long history of not maintaining them. Making another park the centerpiece of our city that it's questionable if we can even afford in the first place, much less maintain, is less a gamble and more the definition of insanity.

It looks like Curry's plan at this point is:

   
• Get JEA to award their HQ to Lot J
• Tear down the Hart ramps and build the convention center at the Shipyards
• Tear down the Landing and turn it into a park to remove competition from Lot J and get credit for doing anything at all
• Let Rimrock Devlin build their apartment & "food hall" next to the Hyatt as a consolation prize for not having a convention center downtown
• Either retire wealthily or run for higher office as a "results-oriented" candidate and get elected while we stand around looking at the shambles downtown is in at the end of the next decade while Shad begins considering a move to London anyway

[lowlyplanner]

Does The Jaxson have an easily accessible list of other downtown improvement proposals with costs?

If we have another $8+ million to throw around, what is the most effective way to spend it?

[Captain Zissou]

Isn't there a height restriction on the Landing property?  If we give a ground lease to someone to develop the Water Street side of the property and they put a couple 3-4 story office or mixed use buildings on the property, what kind of annual revenue can we expect?  I think that's a best case scenario and we're looking at a low single digit ROI on $18M.  The more likely outcome is a public beach for homeless people.

[thelakelander]

^If we're doing all that, it would be cheaper to not pay $18 million to kick tenants out and get Sleiman to leave and use portions of the existing facility and upgrade the existing poorly maintained riverfront park/courtyard/front porch/former Jackson statue/Hogan Street dead end that's all been the responsibility of COJ's to take care of since 1987.

Even a real park costs money. I'd be surprised if we don't take the cheap way out like we're doing with the Hart Bridge ramp removal project.

[sandyshoes]

Call me a dreamer, but it would seem natural to have a marina and fishing pier of sorts right there on the river...there's really nothing promoting the ability to enjoy the river, launching kayaks, etc., etc.  And how fun would it be to be a downtown dweller with your boat nearby so you could get out easily and float around watching fireworks, catching the football game, etc out on the water?  Granted, with the parking needed it would be a small operation, but probably about as much traffic as that part of the river could bear. 

[Captain Zissou]

Call me a dreamer, but it would seem natural to have a marina and fishing pier of sorts right there on the river...there's really nothing promoting the ability to enjoy the river, launching kayaks, etc., etc.  And how fun would it be to be a downtown dweller with your boat nearby so you could get out easily and float around watching fireworks, catching the football game, etc out on the water?  Granted, with the parking needed it would be a small operation, but probably about as much traffic as that part of the river could bear. 

Have you been down there lately?  The existing marina supply is never full and there's an existing kayak launch on the southbank and by the Y in Brooklyn.  You can't put a pier there because it would interfere with the navigational channel.

[sandyshoes]

To quote a favorite character:  "Oh.  Well, that's different.  Nevermind". 

[acme54321]

Call me a dreamer, but it would seem natural to have a marina and fishing pier of sorts right there on the river...there's really nothing promoting the ability to enjoy the river, launching kayaks, etc., etc.  And how fun would it be to be a downtown dweller with your boat nearby so you could get out easily and float around watching fireworks, catching the football game, etc out on the water?  Granted, with the parking needed it would be a small operation, but probably about as much traffic as that part of the river could bear.

You don't need a pier when it's 40' deep right off of the seawall. 

[Tacachale]

Call me a dreamer, but it would seem natural to have a marina and fishing pier of sorts right there on the river...there's really nothing promoting the ability to enjoy the river, launching kayaks, etc., etc.  And how fun would it be to be a downtown dweller with your boat nearby so you could get out easily and float around watching fireworks, catching the football game, etc out on the water?  Granted, with the parking needed it would be a small operation, but probably about as much traffic as that part of the river could bear.

You don't need a pier when it's 40' deep right off of the seawall.

It would be helpful if fishing was allowed there, or somewhere in downtown.