Deciphering JEA's Search: What's Best For Downtown?

[Captain Zissou]

So you don't know for sure if they were courted by Iguana or not. Just a guess.

If it fits his narrative, Kerry doesn't worry about the trivial details like facts or evidence.  There's a conspiracy going on here and he's going to uncover it.

[Lostwave]

You're right - it isn't everyday, especially in Jax, which further convinces me their plan for the last 12 months has been JEA and only JEA.   If Vystar was in talks that would have been over a year ago.

Crazy talk.  They wouldn't spend all this money and time planning out a complex just on the possibility that JEA MIGHT move in.  They are pushing JEA because they want to fill their planned office space.  If VyStar or anyone else showed serious interest, they would aggressively pursue them.  Thats what you do when you are planning on building office space.   You do everything you can to fill it with someone.  JEA has nothing to do with the plans, except that they are looking for office space at the same time Khan is trying to create office space.  Now, to try to get JEA in there, they did redesign the office building to be smaller, to perfectly fit JEA, but they are not planning out Lot J just for JEA.  They are doing it to make some money outside the stadium.  Period.

[Steve]

You're right - it isn't everyday, especially in Jax, which further convinces me their plan for the last 12 months has been JEA and only JEA.   If Vystar was in talks that would have been over a year ago.

Crazy talk.  They wouldn't spend all this money and time planning out a complex just on the possibility that JEA MIGHT move in.  They are pushing JEA because they want to fill their planned office space.  If VyStar or anyone else showed serious interest, they would aggressively pursue them.  Thats what you do when you are planning on building office space.   You do everything you can to fill it with someone.  JEA has nothing to do with the plans, except that they are looking for office space at the same time Khan is trying to create office space.  Now, to try to get JEA in there, they did redesign the office building to be smaller, to perfectly fit JEA, but they are not planning out Lot J just for JEA.  They are doing it to make some money outside the stadium.  Period.

[vicupstate]

You're right - it isn't everyday, especially in Jax, which further convinces me their plan for the last 12 months has been JEA and only JEA.   If Vystar was in talks that would have been over a year ago.

Crazy talk.  They wouldn't spend all this money and time planning out a complex just on the possibility that JEA MIGHT move in.  They are pushing JEA because they want to fill their planned office space.  If VyStar or anyone else showed serious interest, they would aggressively pursue them.  Thats what you do when you are planning on building office space.   You do everything you can to fill it with someone.  JEA has nothing to do with the plans, except that they are looking for office space at the same time Khan is trying to create office space.  Now, to try to get JEA in there, they did redesign the office building to be smaller, to perfectly fit JEA, but they are not planning out Lot J just for JEA.  They are doing it to make some money outside the stadium.  Period.

I don't think anyone implied that LOT J was designed with JEA specifically in mind, but obviously they need someone to step up to the plate. Users of 200k SF of office space are not in great abundance. Even more so, one that explicitly wants to be DT.  If Iguana didn't approach VyStar, then that does not speak well of them. Most likely Iguana couldn't touch the deal they got at Laura Street.  That is part of the problem. Office space is DT is plentiful and cheap, thus why pay the necessary expense of what a new building would have to charge to be profitable? That is even more true in what is a 'pioneer' location. 

     

[KenFSU]

Here is the opinion of Nate Monroe, of the TU - https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190206/nate-monroe-dark-future-ahead-for-jacksonvilles-utility?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=TheFloridaTimesUnion-SND

But there is one overwhelming reason JEA's future headquarters will probably go there: Khan wants it.

Since the JEA board now operates as more a sub-department within the mayor's office, Khan, a prolific contributor to local politicians generally and Curry specifically, is the easy favorite.

He also talks about the potential sale of JEA arising again.

The potential for the JEA sale talk to rear its head in the next year or so is a really interesting subplot to this whole thing.

Most people that I talk to within JEA expect it to resurface, and it's probably one of the reasons that Husein Cumber stepped down from the board citing a conflict of interest with his wife being a member of City Council.

Khan and Curry are likely united in their desire to see JEA relocate to Lot J, but it's clear that they're on totally opposite pages when it comes to the privatization of JEA.

When the idea was floated last year, Shad Khan came straight out and said selling JEA was stupid and would be a terrible mistake for the city. Say what you want about the guy, but it was a really firm stance from a guy who would probably stand to benefit more than anyone else in the city from a gigantic windfall from a JEA sale.

I feel like JEA partnering with Khan would actually give him some additional influence in the privatization talks.

To the points above about Lot J being built specifically for JEA, as others have mentioned, that's just simply not true. They pitched VyStar. They pitched JEA. I'm sure they've pitched others. And there are a lot of leases coming up in the next one to three years. JEA just happened to be next in line.

The Jags aren't desperate. Even if they don't have an anchor company when they start construction, the prospect of being part of a shiny new Cordish development, subsidized by the city, with all of these extra sports complex perks that the Jags are floating, is going to appeal to someone, just like it has in their other markets. Hopefully it doesn't come at the expense of a company already anchored in the CBD, but it'll happen, with or without JEA. No one's in panic mode.

[vicupstate]

To the points above about Lot J being built specifically for JEA, as others have mentioned, that's just simply not true.

Again, I don't think anyone said or believes this.

But they do need SOMEONE to sign a lease before they start an office building. Yes, at some point, someone will do that. The question is who, how soon, and how much space will they build?  Chances are it will be JEA, because of the political pressure, and that is not a good thing, because it would be for the wrong reasons.     

[FlaBoy]

Here is the opinion of Nate Monroe, of the TU - https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190206/nate-monroe-dark-future-ahead-for-jacksonvilles-utility?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=TheFloridaTimesUnion-SND

But there is one overwhelming reason JEA's future headquarters will probably go there: Khan wants it.

Since the JEA board now operates as more a sub-department within the mayor's office, Khan, a prolific contributor to local politicians generally and Curry specifically, is the easy favorite.

He also talks about the potential sale of JEA arising again.

The potential for the JEA sale talk to rear its head in the next year or so is a really interesting subplot to this whole thing.

Most people that I talk to within JEA expect it to resurface, and it's probably one of the reasons that Husein Cumber stepped down from the board citing a conflict of interest with his wife being a member of City Council.

Khan and Curry are likely united in their desire to see JEA relocate to Lot J, but it's clear that they're on totally opposite pages when it comes to the privatization of JEA.

When the idea was floated last year, Shad Khan came straight out and said selling JEA was stupid and would be a terrible mistake for the city. Say what you want about the guy, but it was a really firm stance from a guy who would probably stand to benefit more than anyone else in the city from a gigantic windfall from a JEA sale.

I feel like JEA partnering with Khan would actually give him some additional influence in the privatization talks.

To the points above about Lot J being built specifically for JEA, as others have mentioned, that's just simply not true. They pitched VyStar. They pitched JEA. I'm sure they've pitched others. And there are a lot of leases coming up in the next one to three years. JEA just happened to be next in line.

The Jags aren't desperate. Even if they don't have an anchor company when they start construction, the prospect of being part of a shiny new Cordish development, subsidized by the city, with all of these extra sports complex perks that the Jags are floating, is going to appeal to someone, just like it has in their other markets. Hopefully it doesn't come at the expense of a company already anchored in the CBD, but it'll happen, with or without JEA. No one's in panic mode.

Agreed. Well stated. All of those reasons are why JEA should not go there. There is a better chance of attracting a current suburban employer to the stadium than in the Northbank core at this point.

[Captain Zissou]

To the points above about Lot J being built specifically for JEA, as others have mentioned, that's just simply not true.

Again, I don't think anyone said or believes this.

But they do need SOMEONE to sign a lease before they start an office building. Yes, at some point, someone will do that. The question is who, how soon, and how much space will they build?  Chances are it will be JEA, because of the political pressure, and that is not a good thing, because it would be for the wrong reasons.     

Did you miss Kerry's tinfoil hat conspiracy theories a couple pages back?

[vicupstate]

To the points above about Lot J being built specifically for JEA, as others have mentioned, that's just simply not true.

Again, I don't think anyone said or believes this.

But they do need SOMEONE to sign a lease before they start an office building. Yes, at some point, someone will do that. The question is who, how soon, and how much space will they build?  Chances are it will be JEA, because of the political pressure, and that is not a good thing, because it would be for the wrong reasons.     

Did you miss Kerry's tinfoil hat conspiracy theories a couple pages back?

Kerry thinks the 'fix' is in for JEA to go to Lot J.  He may very well be right, but that remains to be seen. Either way, that is not at all the same thing as saying the Lot J plans were designed with JEA in mind.  Iguana designed it with generic office space users as part of the mix. But when the JEA option came along, they changed their plans to mesh with JEA's, and are perhaps using undue influence to seal the deal.   

[Steve]

Vic, here is the post in question. Read the last line.

It makes sense if you follow the time line.

Oct 18, 2018
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/10/18/jaguars-lot-j-could-show-progress-in-late-2018.html

Development of Lot J development is now the top priority for the Jacksonville Jaguars — and could even begin this year — after owner Shad Khan withdrew his offer to purchase Wembley Stadium in London.
...
"The acquisition of Wembley Stadium was designed to serve a very specific purpose and that was to strengthen the Jaguars here in Jacksonville," Lamping said at press conference on Thursday. "The fact that it's not going to happen puts pressure on us to find other ways to generate the revenue that would've come from there and we are confident that we will do that.
...
The team is now turning to Lot J and Lamping said there could be progress on the project by the end of 2018 or early next year.

So what was this progress by end of 2018 or early next year?

Well, we now know that months prior to July 30, 2018 the Jags solicited JEA.  Let's call that April 30, 2018 since we don't know what 'months' means.

July 30, 2018
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/jea-looking-at-developing-lot-j-for-new-headquarters/802090589

JEA confirms to Action News Jax that the Jaguars reached out to the utility months ago about being an anchor tenant at its proposed $2 billion Lot J development at TIAA Bank Field.

So for almost a year (they didn't think of JEA and then make the pitch on the same day) the Jags have been planning for JEA to be their anchor tenant.

What else happened in April 2018?  For one, Khan shifted the focus from The Shipyard to Lot J.

April 19, 2018
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jacksonville/jaguars-share-vision-for-lot-j-entertainment-district

The focus for the development around the stadium, at least in the near-term, has shifted from the Shipyards to Lot J.
...
The hope is that Lot J will become a place people want to go to, and not just on game day.
...
Khan and Lamping both said the development doesn't change or replace their desire to ultimately develop the Shipyards, but they believe the Lot J plan will be easier to get approved. 

The goal would be to start with the lot and work downtown.

So to answer your question - Yes, I do think Khan and Company built the entire Lot J project around JEA.  If there is any other company under consideration it is the best kept secret in Jacksonville.  Vystar wasn't even approached.

[vicupstate]

I stand corrected.   

[KenFSU]

Iguana designed it with generic office space users as part of the mix. But when the JEA option came along, they changed their plans to mesh with JEA's, and are perhaps using undue influence to seal the deal.   

Absolutely true.

[Kerry]

So you don't know for sure if they were courted by Iguana or not. Just a guess.

No I don't, and if they were I don't know the level of that interest.  All I know is JEA has been targeted from almost the beginning - assuming media reports are correct.

[Jagsdrew]

Just a friendly reminder that JEA hasn't disclosed the economic/financials for each projects.

Once we see those, the majority of the cards are in the table. I

[Kerry]

Khan doesn't want JEA private because that complicates efforts to get JEA to Lot J.  He would have to present his case to a Board of Directors that doesn't care if he owns the Jags or not.  With it remaining part of the City he can influence things with political donations.