Re-evaluating the Skyway

[Metro Jacksonville]

Re-evaluating the Skyway



The Skyway has been one of the biggest points of contention in Jacksonville transportation history. Many critics claim it is a bust that goes  from nowhere to nowhere .  This article takes a look at the Skyway from a different viewpoint.  One that reveals that expanding the system to make it more viable may not be as expensive as previously thought.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/918

[DjDonnyD]

I'm Originally From Jax and I'm moving back in 3 years. But have not lived in Jax from 25 years, I guess this means now that I'm somewhat of an outsider now. So, here my thought on extending the system. If they would just extend this thing to some places that matter... I.E. The sports complex, Metro park and San Marco. You would be surprised how fast ridership would go up. Every time I'm in Jax with someone new, I have to bring them on the skyway. Everyone Loves it and wishes they had one in their city! Jax HAS one, Just make it GO SOMEWHERES! Just my 2 cents!   

[Keith-N-Jax]

This by far is one of the best article I have read. I dont understand why these people in this city just dont get it. One point that really stands out is when they mention a quiet downtown. The only time downtown is happening besides the work week is a major holiday, sporting events etc. Expand the skyway and connect it to light rail people!!!!

[Abhishek]

It is indeed refreshing to know that the skyway was built to handle a lot more volume. Extending the length to denser population areas is a no-brainer. It should also compliment very well the commuter rail if that is ever built.

[jeh1980]

Great article, everyone! A lot of this is very encouraging not just for us but for the Skyway too. Great job.

[vicupstate]

The article makes a compelling argument.  I think a expansion to the stadium makes a lot of sense, but I think it would totally ruin the Bay Street corridor.  Could the line be moved onto the Shipyards property?  If it could not, I would suggest using a Beaver Street route to the the Stadium instead.   

[Basstacular]

Not to sound redundant, but extending this system to the sports district is imperative.  When we have 10 Jags games in the fall, 60,000 people are Downtown.  These people cannot be continually herded back in their cars like cattle and pushed out after a game.  When the Jags play and hopefully win, especially a 1 p.m game, fans have to have an easy way to get dropped off in the core.  If Sleiman can make the improvements to the Landing he has talked about with the constructuion of his long awaited parking garage and Bay Street  ("E" Street) can add a little more (possibly a restaurant or two to go with the bars), Downtown, at least during the Fall can truly be a destination. 

[thelakelander]

In addition, a link would provide a direct connection between Metropolitan Park and Kids Kampus with the downtown core.  This would give downtown businesses a stronger chance to benefit from the isolated feastivals and cultural events that take place in that public space.

[kramer2k]

Terrific article Ennis and Bob!  One of the best I've read yet!  I see the most positive impact in extending to Sports District first, then Five Points for sure.  Those are two places that seem like no brainers.


FYI, there is a typo at the very end.  It says "Article be ..." instead of "Article by ..."  Just thought I'd throw that out there. 

[TPC]

Since I first saw the Skyway I thought it odd that it started and ended in basically no mans lands. I feel the proposed yellow lines make for a good starting point. Extensions into Riverside, San Marco and the SportsDistrict would be a good start.

[Doctor_K]

If the Skyway were to be extended to Atlantic Blvd/San Marco Square, would that necessitate building a multi-modal there for transfers on/off a possible future commuter rail line?  Would that be feasible?  Would that even be possible?

[Ocklawaha]

As a Transportation Supervisor with Trailways Bus System, I joined with Jacksonville Journal Editor, the late George Harmon, in launching an all out attack on the Skyway plans as soon as they became public knowledge. The two of us were promoting a combination Light Rail and Heritage Streetcar system that would have been the first of it's kind in the country. Based on the San Diego experience of the same time period, and our ultimate investment in the Skyway, we could have built 32 miles of rail for the cost of 2.5 Skyway miles. Even former Mayor Jake Godbold, who pushed the Skyway project over the top, says we should have never have built it. Perhaps the only thing worse then building any unproved fixed transit system, is half-way building it.

In the case of the Skyway it seems the City and the original critics have swapped positions. As the wildly optimistic ridership projections of JTA began to crumble from 50,000 to 30,000, 17,000, 10,000 and finally 7,000 daily riders, to a reality of about 3,000. The Skyway came under the microscope of the press. Then the jokes started and the splashes made by the politicians bailing off this sinking ship could be heard in Washington DC. Indeed the City went into damage control mode, when international press attention was focused on the half built transit system. "A hotel wasn't built", "downturn in the economy," "downtown failed to develop", "we built parking garages", everyone on the inside had an excuse. Everyone on the outside couldn't resist one more swipe at Jacksonville. JTA lost it's credibility and its public voice and the vultures were already circling. Even the FTA in Washington, when speaking about the Skyway, claimed they didn't know where Jacksonville was. Today fear paralyzeses all party's, at a time when the worst thing we can do is sit on the Skyway as-is and hope for the best. This is done by a well meaning political machine that doesn't want to appear irresponsible for the stewardship of the City's limited budget. They feel they would appear irresponsible as the media has continued the attack. 

With the help of Council Woman Glorious Johnson, COJ and Mr. Mike Miller of JTA. Metro Jacksonville was alloweed unhindereded access to the Skyway, it's plant and it's people. We spoke with many suppliers of monorail systems and they can't understand why we couldn't expand for under $15 Million per mile.

At 10 miles of route construction, the Skyway - Monorail costs equal that of JTA'S super-bus, BRT plan. If for some reason the Skyway were to replace the current routes of the proposed BRT system, the cost would be about 1/2 of the JTA estimates for a BRT-Quick-Way system. Imagine - Monorail for less then the price of a bus.





(BRT Quick-Way, is a bus system using grade separateded, sometimes elevated busways
and exclusive bus lanes - it has been shown to cost as much or more then Light Rail.
BRT Lite, is a bus system using some of the Quick-Way features at congestion points, otherwise it uses HOV lanes and signal priority - it's cost is about equal with commuter rail.)






OCKLAWAHA
STILL OUT HERE!

[tufsu1]

glad to see you come around to support the Skyway Ock....but I have a question...

If we build a more expansive rail system to circulate through the urban core, it will likely be either streetcar or skyway, not both.

Working under this premise, which one do you support and why?

[Ocklawaha]

DOCTOR K
If the Skyway were to be extended to Atlantic Blvd/San Marco Square, would that necessitate building a multi-modal there for transfers on/off a possible future commuter rail line?  Would that be feasible?  Would that even be possible?

Sure is, in fact it would be about 1/2 of the purpose of heading down there. Commuter Rail to that location is also a no brainer, but so far the consultants have skipped it for Prudential Drive!?!? Put in this Skyway segment and a small multi-modal station and you get:

San Marco-San Jose finally have a way over the FEC railroad when it's blocked.
Easy access to downtown  (and other districts) from the trains to the South.
Easy access for pedestrians
quick highway access to Philips, SR13-San Jose-Hendricks, Atlantic, Beach
Access to southside bus routes
Access from downtown and hotels to San Marco Shopping experience
True intermodal hubs draw grants, and TOD.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

glad to see you come around to support the Skyway Ock....but I have a question...

If we build a more expansive rail system to circulate through the urban core, it will likely be either streetcar or skyway, not both.

Working under this premise, which one do you support and why?

I propose that since we already have the Skyway, that we expand on that - in as much as it fits the urban core and immediate surroundings. The drawback is the Skyway was never designed for longer distances and is a short haul - lower speed type vehicle. Even so it regains some time by using "air speed" rather then ground speed, and it has been tested at much higher speeds. Still I see it as the Master Downtown Distributor all along the upside down "T" of Bay Street and Hogan. Outside of the urban core, the Skyway becomes visual blight and would have a much harder time achieving any meaningful expansion. There are many areas where it could be expanded within the urbanized zones without much fuss.

Streetcar would not compete with the Skyway at all. In fact they would take different routes, and serve different sectors of the City. The streetcars can run down Water taking transfers off the Skyway at Newnan or Union Station. The streetcars can also reach up and touch Springfield, the Court House, Shand's, Gateway, or South into Riverside or Ortega. The Skyway would NEVER get into RAP or SPAR territory without a huge fight. Streetcars on the other hand would blend in. This is why I push a modified heritage streetcar system rather then a pure modern one. In the future if we want to go modern they both can run on the same railway. Streetcar or LRT also makes the most sense when talking about a long trunk line construction such as along Arlington Expressway to the Beaches, or JTB, or power line easements. 

In Transit MIX SELLS and the better the mix or matrix, the better the connections and ability to move about. I had much rather see 10 miles of streetcar and 5 of Skyway as a fully integrated system rather then 20 miles of either one or the other. Both systems would be huge tourist draws once they were built enough to function as transportation.

OCKLAWAHA