New Horizon Mall - Calgary

[Steve]

The building is sitting in the wrong spot on the land.  It is too close to the river and too far from the street.  How can you fix it without tearing it down, and is the fix more expensive than just starting over?  If you don't fix the root cause to any problem then you are just treating the symptoms.

And they would still need to do something about the terminating vistas on Laura Street and Water Street.  They are abysmal.  Almost as if the developer really had no concept or idea about what they were doing.

http://www.placemakers.com/2012/04/12/get-to-know-the-awkwardly-named-terminated-vista/

Again, I'd also fix a ton of other buildings downtown too. But, that isn't keeping them from being redeveloped. Are we really trying to make the argument that if hypothetically the building was 15 feet back off the river and closer to the street that all of our problems would be solved here?

The original plan from the 2000's was to cut a hole in the building at Laura street so someone going down Laura would be able to see to the river. I thought that was a great idea.

Again, this was the 1980s. Look at Horton Plaza in San Diego. The thing was built as a fortress that took up like 6 blocks downtown. It would have been more friendly if they built a moat around it and had a single drawbridge. They've fixed it some but it's still not amazing.

It's also not a huge problem in the Gaslamp District.

[Kerry]

The building is sitting in the wrong spot on the land.  It is too close to the river and too far from the street.  How can you fix it without tearing it down, and is the fix more expensive than just starting over?  If you don't fix the root cause to any problem then you are just treating the symptoms.

And they would still need to do something about the terminating vistas on Laura Street and Water Street.  They are abysmal.  Almost as if the developer really had no concept or idea about what they were doing.

http://www.placemakers.com/2012/04/12/get-to-know-the-awkwardly-named-terminated-vista/

Again, I'd also fix a ton of other buildings downtown too. But, that isn't keeping them from being redeveloped. Are we really trying to make the argument that if hypothetically the building was 15 feet back off the river and closer to the street that all of our problems would be solved here?

Actually Yes - I am making the argument that setbacks play a huge role in successful walkable urbanism.  That can't be fixed at the Landing with the current structure.  The whole eastside is loading docks and mechanical systems.   It was destined for failure while it was still on paper in some architect's office.

[thelakelander]

Let me add - even if it was revamped to have the retail facing the street, the building is way too far from the street.  There is simply too much wasted space between the structure and the sidewalk.

Lol are you serious?  It's set back 20 feet from the curb at Laura Street and ranges from 20 to 100 between Laura and the green space at the corner of Hogan and Independent Drive. You can either activate the dead space into interactive outdoor plaza, bier garden, etc. that DT doesn't have or use a portion of it as complimenting infill development. What you describe isn't a negative.....it's an opportunity.

[thelakelander]

The building is sitting in the wrong spot on the land.  It is too close to the river and too far from the street.  How can you fix it without tearing it down, and is the fix more expensive than just starting over?  If you don't fix the root cause to any problem then you are just treating the symptoms.

And they would still need to do something about the terminating vistas on Laura Street and Water Street.  They are abysmal.  Almost as if the developer really had no concept or idea about what they were doing.

http://www.placemakers.com/2012/04/12/get-to-know-the-awkwardly-named-terminated-vista/

Ever been to Chicago or an old seaport city? Their buildings and wharves are literally in their rivers. Too far from the street or two close to the river.....it's hard to make a sound case for either one these observations being are market related or root problems to why the center is what it is today or what it can be in the future.

[thelakelander]

The building is sitting in the wrong spot on the land.  It is too close to the river and too far from the street.  How can you fix it without tearing it down, and is the fix more expensive than just starting over?  If you don't fix the root cause to any problem then you are just treating the symptoms.

And they would still need to do something about the terminating vistas on Laura Street and Water Street.  They are abysmal.  Almost as if the developer really had no concept or idea about what they were doing.

http://www.placemakers.com/2012/04/12/get-to-know-the-awkwardly-named-terminated-vista/

Again, I'd also fix a ton of other buildings downtown too. But, that isn't keeping them from being redeveloped. Are we really trying to make the argument that if hypothetically the building was 15 feet back off the river and closer to the street that all of our problems would be solved here?

Actually Yes - I am making the argument that setbacks play a huge role in successful walkable urbanism.  That can't be fixed at the Landing with the current structure.  The whole eastside is loading docks and mechanical systems.   It was destined for failure while it was still on paper in some architect's office.

The complex is actually three buildings, so you could demo one of the smaller ones on the river if you wanted a bigger space there but I doubt that's necessary for the site to be a vibrant and interactive one. Nevertheless, your argument about setbacks can quickly become a pretty bad one because the devil is in the details of how you use a specific space. IMO, the Landing is a mixed-use structure in what should be a linear urban waterfront park that includes the entire length of the riverwalk. There's a million things you can do with a structurally sound space like that, loading docks, mechanical systems and all. All you need is a little vision and open mindedness. That goes a long way to setting some places apart from others.

[Kerry]

sorry - misread Lakelands comment so deleted my response to it.

I prefer to activate that space with retail - not checkers.

[thelakelander]

Then add a retail space or kiosk. However, the market can't support 100% filling of what's already available.

[Kerry]

Anyone know if COJ has done anything like this so developers can get a sense of where the City wants to go with downtown retail?

https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/cache/2/n4eucsibgyztryjfgagte43v/379918911272018053747900.PDF

[thelakelander]

The link doesn't work. However, I doubt the city knows where it wants to go with retail or where the market is willing to take it.

[Kerry]

See if this one works.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwingov43vXeAhVPq1MKHcX7BzkQFjACegQIBxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fagenda.okc.gov%2Fsirepub%2Fview.aspx%3Fcabinet%3Dpublished_meetings%26fileid%3D3799189&usg=AOvVaw2i4oIPivg4ajn-NGfIU99q

[thelakelander]

In short....no, not that I'm aware of.

[I-10east]

Isn't this Calgary mall basically a glorified flea market? It sure does look like it (with the small booths, and symmetrical aisle layout).

[thelakelander]

Yeah, that's what it looks like.

[JaxJersey-licious]

This reminds me of the big resurgence in condo construction and sales happening over the last decade in major cities all over North America and which has left Jacksonville behind for some reason  .Many properties have been bought by international investors for residency issues, for instance getting their children a better shot being admitted to a particular grad school, but they don't live their full time or at all and it becomes sub-leased or vacant. According to the video about this mall an incredible 99% of the slots available at this struggling space have been sold! With those kind of numbers you would think there would be investors clamoring to get a foothold and open a business before someone else capitalizes on the opportunity but not here leading me to believe ulterior motives in investing in a project like this.