JBJ: We must not dawdle if we want a riverfront miracle mile

[thelakelander]

Congrats on the move. Here's two photo heavy articles I made from my last visit to Charlotte in 2016/2017:

https://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-oct-charlotte-an-emerging-walkable-modern-day-megalopolis

https://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-charlottes-lynx-light-rail-ten-years-later

[jaxnyc79]

Congrats on the move. Here's two photo heavy articles I made from my last visit to Charlotte in 2016/2017:

https://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-oct-charlotte-an-emerging-walkable-modern-day-megalopolis

https://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-charlottes-lynx-light-rail-ten-years-later

Thank you much!

[Kerry]

When you've tried to establish your own rouge system here or contacted these companies to come to town, what's been their response? If there was something stopping them, what do you think the potential solution around that obstacle might be?

Are you suggesting that unless I'm going to do it myself I can't complain about not having it, or did I read that wrong?

[thelakelander]

No. I was responding to this quote:

^There are things RAP can be reasonably criticized for, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sit here and kvetch than to get up and do something.

I would be all in favor of forming a group that demanded some action from the City.  Hell, we can meet at my Brooklyn apartment.  Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at.  I have a whole list of things the City could do unilaterally that would make big improvements - from practically free to radical change.

Kerry, what's frustrating about incessant negativity is that many of us are actually out there

Can you give me an example of something you are trying to change/improve about urban Jax?

I'll give you an example I would like to see done - a bike sharing program.  I travel to cities all over the country and darn near every one of them has a bike share and there are 2 rouge scooter share companies that just randomly drop their scooters around cities.  Not only can we not get a legal bike share system we can't even get the law-flaunting scooter companies to drop their illegal scooters here.

https://www.google.com/search?q=scooters+dropped+downtown&gws_rd=ssl

Oh, so you were just complaining about not having one?

I'm sorry, I read the question and response as if you were in the process of working to change or improve the urban core by trying to establish a bike share system locally. Under that assumption, I was asking what was the response you've gotten either as someone trying to open the business yourself or recruiting an existing business to do so? Assuming there was some obstacle at play, I was hoping to hear what it was in order to help you navigate around that obstacle.

[vicupstate]

I totally get were Kerry is coming from, but as far as RAP is concerned, THAT is one (of many) problems that DT has. There is no RAP like organization that is focused on DT yet is independent of the city administration. 

RAP, love them or hate them, get RESULTS because THEY are the squeaky wheel.  Perhaps that is what the forum members here can start to provide. I have literally advocated that here for years. 

Let's face facts JAX is indeed, decades behind comparable cities in regards to urban vitality. You can have all the grassroots effort you want but if it does not move the REAL powerbrokers, it doesn't change much. By real powerbrokers, I mean the Mayor and council. 

The type organization I described above would not be necessary if the city itself 'got it', but we all know that has been lacking here, and there is no continuity between administration either. 

[thelakelander]

But isn't RAP and example of a grassroots effort itself?

[fieldafm]

Are you suggesting that unless I'm going to do it myself I can't complain about not having it, or did I read that wrong?

Oh, so totally cool to come on here ranting about how this board is full of cheerleaders who don't do anything (which is categorically incorrect)... but not cool when you are called out for not doing anything your own self? 
Funny how that works 

Can you give me an example of something you are trying to change/improve about urban Jax?

Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at. 

This group is supposed to be a collection of civic-minded people working collectively and as an individuals to help Jax reach its potential.  We are the team - to borrow a football analogy - this the half time locker room, the practice field, the film room, analyzing what's working, what isn't, studying what the competition is doing, looking for players to draft it trade..... But many of you just want to be cheerleaders.  Maybe I'm in the wrong group.

[Steve]

I totally get were Kerry is coming from, but as far as RAP is concerned, THAT is one (of many) problems that DT has. There is no RAP like organization that is focused on DT yet is independent of the city administration. 

RAP, love them or hate them, get RESULTS because THEY are the squeaky wheel.  Perhaps that is what the forum members here can start to provide. I have literally advocated that here for years. 

PREACH. If you want to bring RAP into this, look at how they've gotten results.

[ProjectMaximus]

We went to Great Smoky Mountains National Park for 7 days.  Rented a cabin.

After 14 years in Manhattan, and because of my love for the Carolina Mountains, I'll be relocating to another office of my Firm in Charlotte effective November 1, and just a couple hours away from some of highest peaks east of the Mississippi.  Anyone know much about downtown Charlotte?  I still have family in Jax and will visit often, but not quite ready to slow down as much as Jax at this time.

Wow that's exciting, congrats! Will be a significant change but if you're ready for it should be nice. You might post on here to get specifics on downtown (or uptown?) living.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/charlotte/

[ProjectMaximus]

There's definitely a disconnect here. I'm giving Kerry the benefit of the doubt and assuming what he's actually saying is that just cause he's specifically not doing something about X doesn't mean he can't complain about X, because he is busy working on Y & Z. That may not be the case, but that's the only way the attitude makes any sense to me.

[Kerry]

Well - I guess I made the point I wanted to make so I really don't have much more to add.  Since I don't plan to build an apartment building, hotel, convention center, rail transit system, implement a bike share system, two-way downtown streets, reconfigure the Hart Bridge ramps, or build a downtown marina I guess I have nothing left to talk about.

[vicupstate]

But isn't RAP and example of a grassroots effort itself?

Yes, but at a higher, more organized level. A level at which it can't be ignored. I don't get the idea that anyone running for city council from that area ignores them, for example.   

[Charles Hunter]

I totally get were Kerry is coming from, but as far as RAP is concerned, THAT is one (of many) problems that DT has. There is no RAP like organization that is focused on DT yet is independent of the city administration. 

RAP, love them or hate them, get RESULTS because THEY are the squeaky wheel.  Perhaps that is what the forum members here can start to provide. I have literally advocated that here for years. 

At one time, as part of my job, I worked with the various CPACs.  In those days, RAP did not participate in the CPACs, despite their area* overlapping the Southwest and Northwest**, and maybe a bit of the Urban Core CPACs.  The scuttlebutt was that RAP felt it had more influence working directly with the COJ, and not being filtered through CPACs that have members from large parts of the City, that might have conflicting interests.  Of course, this wasn't an official position from RAP, but 'water cooler' conversation.

* - Strangely (to me) the RAP website does not have a map of the RAP area. The closest I could find was on the COJ website, for the Riverside Avondale Zoning Overlay.

** - I have long wondered why the Northwest CPAC dips into Riverside - perhaps it is time to redraw the boundaries.

[Steve]

Well - I guess I made the point I wanted to make so I really don't have much more to add.  Since I don't plan to build an apartment building, hotel, convention center, rail transit system, implement a bike share system, two-way downtown streets, reconfigure the Hart Bridge ramps, or build a downtown marina I guess I have nothing left to talk about.

Bro.....you made the comment that many here are cheerleaders. You then made the point that since you can't do the things above you have nothing left to talk about. Sort of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Here's my point - don't criticize others for being cheerleaders. Obviously everyone is welcome to their opinions and to do whatever they want. I'd just ask you to understand the view that just because people are excited about item A, doesn't mean they aren't pissed about item B or they don't recognize that item C is mediocre or sub-par.

[Tacachale]

Some responses:

• Virtually no one on here is simply a "cheerleader" in the sense that they're invariably positive and complacent. Pointing out that there are things that work here is not the same as being a booster; everyone who has weighed in here has also criticized things about life in Jax, many in this very thread.
• Being unfailingly negative is no more reasonable or realistic than being unfailingly positive. Cynicism =/= realism.
• Perhaps that's not how they were intended, but some comments appear to criticize folks for just sitting around and doing nothing. Just in this discussion alone, fieldafm, thelakelander and I run this site, Steve was a RAP board member, and Bill Hoff is on the SPAR board. Others here also have projects and advocacy to their name. Again, maybe how that's not how is was intended, but the comment feels really unfair.
• Of course you can criticize something without actively working on it. That's not the point - the point is that you appear to be criticizing others for doing too little while doing little yourself.

^There are things RAP can be reasonably criticized for, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sit here and kvetch than to get up and do something.

I would be all in favor of forming a group that demanded some action from the City.  Hell, we can meet at my Brooklyn apartment.  Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at.  I have a whole list of things the City could do unilaterally that would make big improvements - from practically free to radical change.

Kerry, what's frustrating about incessant negativity is that many of us are actually out there

Can you give me an example of something you are trying to change/improve about urban Jax?

I'll give you an example I would like to see done - a bike sharing program.  I travel to cities all over the country and darn near every one of them has a bike share and there are 2 rouge scooter share companies that just randomly drop their scooters around cities.  Not only can we not get a legal bike share system we can't even get the law-flaunting scooter companies to drop their illegal scooters here.

https://www.google.com/search?q=scooters+dropped+downtown&gws_rd=ssl

I can give you an example of something we did this week. We hosted a talk with WJCT where over a hundred people came out learn about Jacksonville's forgotten spaces and what can be done about them. We're hosting another one about transit in a few months. The goal is to get people better informed about urban issues to help push things in a positive direction. It may not be a big, showstopping move, but I like to think it got people thinking in a new way.