Convention Center Wars

[jaxnyc79]

Per the JBJ, the decision about whether to build at the Courthouse or at the Shipyards is going to ultimately lie with Curry.

Looks like the Preston Hollow proposal also involves rebuilding that desk over Coastline as well:



This whole thing is going to be really interesting to follow.

The Jacobs plan is obscenely expensive ($700 million+, versus ~$450 million for the three other options). From the scant details available, it also sounds like the proposal that would require the most public contribution.

The Preston Hollow and Rimrock plans will involve sitework that would make that portion of the Shipyards property blush, between demolishing the Courthouse and Annex and then rebuilding the bridge/deck off Coastline.

Everything else held constant, the Courthouse site is the better location.

But if it means having to rebuild the deck, add another 1,800 space garage on/near the river, and carry another $100-$200 million in debt, it gets a little murkier. Particularly when there's a guaranteed offer on the table to develop much-needed (if flawed in its current iteration) mixed use on the Courthouse site if the Shipyards location is chosen.

Throw in the pressure of appeasing the Jags, and Curry's going to have a tough decision to make.

With Curry's stated goal of redeveloping the riverfront from the Courthouse to the stadium though, my money's on him going with Iguana. Guarantees two new developments and keeps the Jags happy.

I pretty much agree with this assessment.

[thelakelander]

There's no offer from Iguana other than the taxpayers funding their dream as well. I've requested a copy of the proposals to better understand the differences and post for all to see.

[thelakelander]

I have all three proposals now. All three put some money in to produce these responses. Jacobs is the only one that doesn't completely fill back in the portion of the river being exposed. Hyatt is also a partner in the proposal. I'll try to scan and post renderings and numbers for all three over the next day or two.

[thelakelander]

Renderings from Jacksonville's Convention Center War



Shad Khan, Iguana and the Jacksonville Jaguars aren't the only party interested in building a convention center in downtown. On August 1, 2018, three development teams responded to the Downtown Investment Authority's Request for Proposals for a convention center, hotel, and parking garage. Here's a brief look at the proposals submitted by Jacobs, Jacksonville Convention Center Partners and Rimrock Devlin - DeBartolo Development, LLC.

Full article: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/renderings-from-jacksonvilles-convention-center-war

[Dapperdan]

Question, If Iguana is chosen, what would you do with the former courthouse space? Maybe an Aquarium or attraction of that type? Jacksonville Eye? Lol.

[thelakelander]

It's too late, but I'd keep the old city hall annex and courthouse still standing until there is a clear decision on the convention center issue. IMO, there's nothing structurally wrong with these buildings. Thus, I'd consider issuing a RFP that would be creative enough to consider adaptive reuse. Just looking at the convention center responses, they're night and day between the three responses, despite all working within limited design parameters. Broaden the playing field and there's no telling what type of interesting concepts for mixed-use could materialize that are currently beyond our traditional comprehension.

[Bill Hoff]

Question, If Iguana is chosen, what would you do with the former courthouse space? Maybe an Aquarium or attraction of that type? Jacksonville Eye? Lol.

I have trouble finding a parking spot directly in front the place I visit in Downtown sometimes. Thus, I suggest building a parking lot in that location.

Or a new park!

[Steve]

To me Jacobs is clearly the best of the three. There are aspects I don't like, but to me it's the most creative rendering.

I don't understand the dock situation in Jacobs though....the rendering isn't clear on that but considering that's one of the first requirements of building a convention center I'm willing at this state to push the "I Believe" button.

But the devil's in the details....in this case the financing details. The $705M number seems logical considering the building, but on let's say a 25 year packback with 0% interest (which isn't going to happen), that's still $28M a year. I'm still of the mindset we need to do it; just not sure where it comes from.

Part of me thinks it's better off that the hotel is privately owned, and then the convention center is a PPP between multiple parties.

I feel like if you drop the hotel, and do the Jacobs plan as a PPP with the Hyatt ownership, it actually can become cleaner.

[thelakelander]

The dock situation and the elevators indicate that the building goes over Market Street to connect with the garage and the Hyatt Hotel.

Jacobs is clearly more creative and detailed than the other two proposals. The proposal mentions in the first three years, payments would be somewhere between $4 and $4.5 million annually. I didn't dive too deep into it but I wonder if they're implying the city only pays to purchase the convention center and not the other components of the development? Like, why would the city purchase a hotel or a garage with 350 residential units on top of it?

Given the financing strategy, I also wonder if it would make sense to streamline the design requirements, which would drop the costs. Perhaps an expensive element like the hotel can become a future addition when the market can support one.  I'd question Rimrock based on the unsolicited proposals made in the following weeks and the numbers needed from the public are vague. With Preston Hollow, I just don't see COJ coming up with $229 million worth of upfront incentives. It's a struggle to get something like the Trio funded. Everyone in city hall would get tar and feathered handing out that much upfront cash for this.

When a top proposal is selected, I hope it can be compared apples to apples with Iguana's proposal. This would be mean an open and upfront conversation about how much public money is really needed (how much, when and in what form) to make that project feasible.

[ProjectMaximus]

I am disappointed by all the proposals. Where is the out-of-the-box thinking and creativity...like a replica of Noah's ark?

[vicupstate]

So

JCCP: $229 mm upfront.
Jacobs: $4 mm per month for 3 years [144 million] plus an unspecified amount for the next 22 years.  Total could easy reach $1 billion.
Rimrock: Unspecified 

None of these are going to happen.

The whole pretext of this is to eliminate this option so that Iguana gets the deal. All they have to do is come up with some slightly less outrageous figure and that is the justification for them to get the deal.   

[Charles Hunter]

What are the chances of the various agencies approving filling in that section of the river?

[Steve]

So

JCCP: $229 mm upfront.
Jacobs: $4 mm per month for 3 years [144 million] plus an unspecified amount for the next 22 years.  Total could easy reach $1 billion.
Rimrock: Unspecified 

None of these are going to happen.

The whole pretext of this is to eliminate this option so that Iguana gets the deal. All they have to do is come up with some slightly less outrageous figure and that is the justification for them to get the deal.   

Perhaps, but Iguana's isn't going to be free either.

Of the three, I think the framework of the Jacobs proposal is the best. But, I'm not sure the City should kick in for the hotel. The hotel should be able to make it on it's own (or drop the hotel and let the market dictate).

[thelakelander]

Well with Iguana, at a minimum you know you got an environmental cleanup, expressway demolition and ground level highway reconstruction involved. So you're well over a $100 million in public money before we can talk convention center subsidies.

[vicupstate]

So

JCCP: $229 mm upfront.
Jacobs: $4 mm per month for 3 years [144 million] plus an unspecified amount for the next 22 years.  Total could easy reach $1 billion.
Rimrock: Unspecified 

None of these are going to happen.

The whole pretext of this is to eliminate this option so that Iguana gets the deal. All they have to do is come up with some slightly less outrageous figure and that is the justification for them to get the deal.   

Perhaps, but Iguana's isn't going to be free either.

I stated as much but they only have to under bid the others by a small difference to look 'reasonable' by comparison.