A Cheap Solution To Jax's Convention Center Problem?

[thelakelander]

I like that too and I hope they do it. However, when it comes to incentives, I hope the city is smart enough to not incentivize deals that poach places like JEA from downtown. If that's what they want, they should cover the cost of those deals themselves.

[vicupstate]

One of the biggest mistakes JX has made DT was putting the CC in the train station. It was a bad location in 1987 and it is still a bad location 30 years later.  It has not grown into a good location in that time. It was then and is now too isolated to create synergy with other things like the Landing.

An independent study based on the viability of each location, or a different location altogether, should determine where it goes. Not the wishes of Curry, Khan or anyone else.  An independent study should also determine if one should even be built at all.

[billy]

Slightly off topic, but how about putting a Flex N Gate facility somewhere in Duval County, like Cecil or Northside?

[thelakelander]

It's not happening but I'd love for Flex N Gate to make its corporate headquarters the anchor of Iguana's project. Now that would really be a Dan Gilbert type of move!

[KenFSU]

One of the biggest mistakes JX has made DT was putting the CC in the train station. It was a bad location in 1987 and it is still a bad location 30 years later.  It has not grown into a good location in that time. It was then and is now too isolated to create synergy with other things like the Landing.

An independent study based on the viability of each location, or a different location altogether, should determine where it goes. Not the wishes of Curry, Khan or anyone else.  An independent study should also determine if one should even be built at all.

Original plan was to build the convention center where the Omni now stands, but the historical folks won out and the Prime Osborne was chosen instead.

To your point, and to Lake's point about history repeating itself, Metro Park was originally supposed to be a linear urban park/esplanade, connecting the Prime Osborne and the new Jacksonville Landing.

When the City Council voted against shutting down Water Street for the new park, Godbold moved our signature urban park a mile and a half east and created Metropolitan Park, which proved too far from the urban core to have any of the positive externalities on downtown predicted at the time.

30 years later, we're still paying for that decision (and will pay for it again when we're forced to give up other city property in a land swap to fix that mistake).

[ProjectMaximus]

Glad you believe Lake has it on lock and is all-knowing, and his position on every detail of downtown development is Bible, but I don't.  And  not sure what you mean by put him in charge, but even if Lake were to run for mayor or get appointed as Downtown Czar, he should still be challenged by a Board or Committee, as any good governance framework should require.  So sorry, no unilateral dictators going around asserting their positions as "Bible" in American democracy, be it on downtown or anything else.  Lake has a lot of great insights, but resorting to the ridiculous Bible comment on a relatively tame position that the Courthouse site isn't all that important versus the Shipyards one, was unnecessarily pompous.  As I've mentioned in the past, I'm not convinced now is the time to focus on a Convention Center.  Make downtown great again and appealing to both locals and outsiders for a multitude of reasons, and then monetize its revival with a Convention Center.

Sorry you were offended by his comments. I don't take Lake's commentary in that way (SEE his posts regarding the Heat, Dolphins, and Hurricanes and you'll realize not to take him literally all the time) Likewise, "putting him in charge" was to make a point about his knowledge and experience but not to be taken literally lol. Bolded statement is exactly how I feel. We'll see how this all plays out but I think it would be great to let the CC develop "organically" or as organically as one can be. That would probably put it in the Stadium district some years from now (which like I said might be ideal in the long term) plus would hopefully require less incentives. Or at least not choke off what resources we currently have for the northbank core.

[Steve]

One of the biggest mistakes JX has made DT was putting the CC in the train station. It was a bad location in 1987 and it is still a bad location 30 years later.  It has not grown into a good location in that time. It was then and is now too isolated to create synergy with other things like the Landing.

An independent study based on the viability of each location, or a different location altogether, should determine where it goes. Not the wishes of Curry, Khan or anyone else.  An independent study should also determine if one should even be built at all.

Though I agree with you, the counterpoint is it likely saved the train station. Plus Jacksonville in the 1980's wasn't smart. They likely would have done something the same size as the Prime Osborne and been landlocked.

[KenFSU]

A lot more details about the Iguana submission, including an early look at how the costs could be split if Iguana is chosen:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/convention-crossroad-whats-next-as-developers-prepare-competing-visions-for-a-new-jacksonville-convention-center

[thelakelander]

Sounds like the public would be responsible for more than $100 million. No way site work begins less than a year from now.

Khan indicated the project will use public and private money.

Iguana estimates the convention center will cost $305 million to $315 million, with the team using private equity and debt service to fund its share. 

The hotel portion is estimated to cost $115 million to $125 million, paid for with private equity and debt from Iguana and from public funds. The city's portion pays for the connecting parking garage.

"Details of the city's participation shall be finalized at a later date based on final project cost and revenue sources," the submission said.

The project includes the city retaining ownership and footing the bill for expanding the Northbank Riverwalk, reconfiguring the Hart Bridge expressway and Bay Street, building public infrastructure and cleaning up the Shipyards and contamination.

There are no costs outlined for those pieces.

[vicupstate]

^^ I don't see the figure $100 mm used nor any smaller numbers adding up to that total. The CC and hotel alone total a minimum of $420 mm, which I would expect the city to pay the lion share of. And that is before even mentioning the two garages the city will be completely on the hook for nor the environmental clean-up.  Those two items alone could total another $100 mm.

I noticed that the courthouse and city hall annex will be demolished regardless of whether the CC goes there or not.