New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone

[KenFSU]

From the (now-unionized) Times-Union (http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180719/berkman-plaza-ii-envisioned-as-hub-for-family-fun-center-in-downtown).

Sounds like they'll definitely be asking for a piece of the Shipyards.

While hotels are a common sight in downtown, the family fun center would be something different. Ohde declined to elaborate on what the fun center will entail. He said the ownership group is working with the city in regard to matching the development with sufficient land for full build-out.

"We really won't know until we can figure out what room we have and what access we have to work with," he said. "We know what we want to do."

He said the fun center would be the driving force behind the development, aimed at attracting visitors who would come for entertainment and stay at the hotel.

"This will be a go-to place," he said. "They're going to come to Jacksonville to use this facility."

Also interesting:

Real estate records filed with the Duval County Clerk's office show Choate sold the property for $4.75 million to 500 East Bay LLC, which is based in Rhinelander, Wis., last Friday.

In addition, Choate loaned $3.25 million to 500 East Bay LLC, according to a mortgage document dated Monday. Ohde said that loan is part of Choate's efforts to help the new owners move the development forward.

How funny would it be if the new developer defaulted on the property, and Choate ended up owning Berkman 2 again 

Full details, including hotel tenant, expected in three weeks.

[I-10east]

"This is definitely going to be a go-to destination," Odhe said when asked if this resort could compete with the massive competition in Orlando.

Just like Unity Plaza was supposed to be Central Park, and the Jags patterning after the Packers (just because they are two small market teams, and literally nothing else in common) Stop it with the embarrassing hyperbole please!

I'm excited about hearing this news of an amusement park, don't get me wrong; If we are lucky, it will be something to the tune of Fun Spot Orlando/Kissimmee (or even smaller); No way it's gonna compete with Orlando, at best, it will be a minor complement to Orlando. The fact the this park will be urban is unusual, given that most amusement parks in modernity are in suburban/rural/residential locations. 

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/big-plans-for-berkman-plaza-ii

[downtownbrown]

I just don't get the "Dave and Busters on steroids" thing.  The demographic is going to be young professional, but not THAT young.  It's all noise until it ain't.

[jaxjags]

And the article says they are asking for incentives. Imagine that. This will probably sit there for another couple years I'm afraid.

[Steve]

And the article says they are asking for incentives. Imagine that. This will probably sit there for another couple years I'm afraid.

Unless there's some sort of understanding already.....

[KenFSU]

^As long as they're reasonable, the incentives should pay for themselves on this project. Jacksonville gains just as much from not having this embarrassment on the waterfront for another decade as the developer does from the incentives. Plus, it's not exactly an easy piece of property to move. And if we did have to try to take it forcefully from Choate, then we're talking legal fees, and potential demolition fees as well.

When the full plans are announced, I think Curry's involvement with and reaction to the announcement will be telling. I'm not sensing the same type of celebration and back-patting from Curry and the DIA that we've seen with other downtown announcements. Not sure if that's because the details are so scarce, or if it reflects a lack of confidence in the ownership group.

[Steve]

^As long as they're reasonable, the incentives should pay for themselves on this project. Jacksonville gains just as much from not having this embarrassment on the waterfront for another decade as the developer does from the incentives. Plus, it's not exactly an easy piece of property to move. And if we did have to try to take it forcefully from Choate, then we're talking legal fees, and potential demolition fees as well.

When the full plans are announced, I think Curry's involvement with and reaction to the announcement will be telling. I'm not sensing the same type of celebration and back-patting from Curry and the DIA that we've seen with other downtown announcements. Not sure if that's because the details are so scarce, or if it reflects a lack of confidence in the ownership group.

It just seems like there's a plan behind the scenes that no one is talking about, which means that they cooked up a plan in the dark. Those usually don't go well.

[thelakelander]

Not including the conceptual stuff at the Shipyards/Lot J and Convention Center RFP:

Berkman Plaza: 312 rooms
Ambassador Hotel: 100 rooms
Marriott Residence Inn: 135 rooms
Marriott AC Hotel: 200 rooms
Marriott Courtyard: 145 rooms
Hotel Indigo: 89 rooms
Hyatt Place: 128 rooms

Where's Kerry? A few months ago, he was a big advocate of real downtowns having several hotel projects under development.

[Steve]

Not including the conceptual stuff at the Shipyards/Lot J and Convention Center RFP:

Berkman Plaza: 312 rooms
Ambassador Hotel: 100 rooms
Marriott Residence Inn: 135 rooms
Marriott AC Hotel: 200 rooms
Marriott Courtyard: 145 rooms
Hotel Indigo: 89 rooms
Hyatt Place: 128 rooms

Where's Kerry? A few months ago, he was a big advocate of real downtowns having several hotel projects under development.

Kerry reminds me of one of those people that writes into Monday Morning QB right after the Jags get housed, but when they have a solid win you hear crickets.

Kerry - if you're reading I mean that in the nicest way possible (I seriously do). You do have a reputation for looking at the glass as "half empty" though.

[jagsonville]

I hope urban residential apartment developers will see that the demand is there like hotel developers have finally noticed.

[thelakelander]

I think they did before the hotel developers did. There's a lot more residential units already under construction or proposed.

[jagsonville]

I think they did before the hotel developers did. There's a lot more residential units already under construction or proposed.

I guess I meant market rate apartments like the Barnett.

[Fallen Buckeye]

I think there was a high-rise Holiday Inn along I-70 in Columbus that was converted into an indoor water resort. I want to say some of the water slides jutted out of the side of the building and reentered somewhere below. I cannot remember it's name, but it was a fairly small footprint. Would not be surprised to see something similar with this. I mean, they asked him if the park would compete with Orlando attractions. What's he going to say? "No, it's going to be a rinky dink attraction that caters mostly to locals?" Not a great business pitch.

[thelakelander]

I think they did before the hotel developers did. There's a lot more residential units already under construction or proposed.

I guess I meant market rate apartments like the Barnett.

The Barnett is only market rate because it got tons of incentives. The only recent residential project of size I can think of that has not received or asked for some sort of incentive is Broadstone on the Southbank.

[jagsonville]

I think they did before the hotel developers did. There's a lot more residential units already under construction or proposed.

I guess I meant market rate apartments like the Barnett.

The Barnett is only market rate because it got tons of incentives. The only recent residential project of size I can think of that has not received or asked for some sort of incentive is Broadstone on the Southbank.

I agree that the Barnett is being remodeled because of incentives but I think making them market rate was Adkins choice and just a sound overall business move. Besides Broadstone, do the home street apartments count as Downtown or just San Marco? I don't mind incentives, hell we are spending millions on removing the hart ramps for a multibillionaire's project. At this point I feel like we need to openly offer incentives to give developers an incentive to jump into an unproven market. Once they see the demand is there like Adkins is realizing right now they or others will proceed with projects without incentives.