The Sad State of Friendship Fountain

[jaxjags]

While tourism is pretty big in Savannah, it has a lot more going for it than that.  They have 3 good sized universities (Savannah State, Georgia Southern - Armstrong, and SCAD), 5th largest container port in the US (behind LA, Long Beach, NY/NJ, and Seattle/Tacoma), 3 large military bases (Hunter Army Airfield, Fort Stewart, and Parris Island Marine Corp), and is a pretty active movie location (just watched the Adam Sandler/David Spade movie - The Do Over, which was filmed in Savannah).  Also, Hilton Head Island is just across the river.

Anyhow, back to our 40 year struggle to get our fountain to work.

So back to the fountain. How many posters at MJ would pay 10% more in local taxes to properly maintain our parks and other public assets, further develop and promote DT, install a real fixed based transit system such as a street car, etc.  I would and I am retiring this year. Although not a believer of big federal spending, I am much more in favor of local taxation where we can better control what the money is used for. Of course the issue always becomes "where did the money go" as politics are always in play.

[Kiva]

Although not a believer of big federal spending, I am much more in favor of local taxation where we can better control what the money is used for. Of course the issue always becomes "where did the money go" as politics are always in play.

Is that why you left "BBQ sauce factory" off your list?

[Kerry]

So back to the fountain. How many posters at MJ would pay 10% more in local taxes to properly maintain our parks and other public assets, further develop and promote DT, install a real fixed based transit system such as a street car, etc.  I would and I am retiring this year. Although not a believer of big federal spending, I am much more in favor of local taxation where we can better control what the money is used for. Of course the issue always becomes "where did the money go" as politics are always in play.

It doesn't seem to be a matter of funding.  If Jax was operating at some level of efficiency then I might be on board, or even if was similar to how OKC does the MAPS taxes, but there is a serious trust issue and honestly, I don't think the way our city government is structured is even compatible with urban growth.  We need to switch to a City Manager government and eliminate at least half the council seats.  Even with that there is a widespread cultural opposition to walkable urbanism in Jax.

Maybe the downtown neighborhoods and Riverside should secede from Jax and form our own City.

[KenFSU]

Really encouraging to see that the City Council recognizes the maintenance issue and lists increasing and improving park maintenance as a top priority in the coming year.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180622/what-should-jacksonville-be-like-in-five-years-city-council-weighs-in

Completing the Emerald Necklace is a top three-year priority for the Council.

[Kerry]

Holy crap - it is worse than I thought, and I thought it was pretty bad.  That article illustrates EVERYTHING that is wrong with Jax and the City Council.  They had a meeting to discuss ideas for a meeting that will maybe take place every year to discuss a plan that they want to put togther for a future implementation.  The future is NOW!!!!!  Do something NOW!!!  You don't need a damn plan, you need action.  Pick something, anything.  Hell, pick something simple like make sure crosswalk lines line up with the curb cut (see Water St and Jefferson).

The only thing useable out of the whole article was this.

"The goal really was to look at big items that we can get our arms around, and certainly recognizing, too, that this is a mayor-led form of government, "Bowman said.

The want to put a plan together?  Put a plan together to move to a City Manager government.  We don't keep a Mayor long enough to implement anything - just sweep up left over crumbs from previous admins.

A city is just a means to a way of life.  Jax needs to decide how it wants to live and then take it from there.  It can't be all things to all people.  You either build for sprawl or for walkable urbanism - you can't do both.

[Steve]

Holy crap - it is worse than I thought, and I thought it was pretty bad.  That article illustrates EVERYTHING that is wrong with Jax and the City Council.  They had a meeting to discuss ideas for a meeting that will maybe take place every year to discuss a plan that they want to put togther for a future implementation.  The future is NOW!!!!!  Do something NOW!!!  You don't need a damn plan, you need action.  Pick something, anything.  Hell, pick something simple like make sure crosswalk lines line up with the curb cut (see Water St and Jefferson).

The only thing useable out of the whole article was this.

"The goal really was to look at big items that we can get our arms around, and certainly recognizing, too, that this is a mayor-led form of government, "Bowman said.

The want to put a plan together?  Put a plan together to move to a City Manager government.  We don't keep a Mayor long enough to implement anything - just sweep up left over crumbs from previous admins.

A city is just a means to a way of life.  Jax needs to decide how it wants to live and then take it from there.  It can't be all things to all people.  You either build for sprawl or for walkable urbanism - you can't do both.

The article wasn't terribly specific, but here's what I saw:

For the coming year, the top priorities are to inventory all the city's crime-fighting programs and set benchmarks for success, increase park maintenance, devise a comprehensive litter-control plan, develop downtown and enhance its public spaces, update the zoning code and bring redevelopment to Mayport.

Over the next three years, council members want to ramp up spending on public works, launch a "Jacksonville Journey 3.0" to mix prevention with enforcement for fighting crime, make downtown more lively, reduce homelessness and bring more activity to waterfront sites across the city.

For the five-year period, the goal of cutting violent crime was followed by making Jacksonville a "clean and well-maintained city" that also is prepared to withstand natural disasters like hurricanes. Phasing out septic tanks also landed on that list.

While I don't know that I agree with everything on the list, I can't say I think it's an awful list. Better maintenance is on all three lists, which I consider a positive as I think it's one of the largest issues in the city today. There were some ideas that I don't think should be there (the shade over the stadium I think is a good concept, but this needs to be a Jaguars-led initiative, as for the non-Jaguar marquee events at the stadium (Fl-Ga, Gator Bowl, etc.), the weather isn't brutally hot or the event is at night.

This isn't a bad exercise for a legislative body to do, frankly.

I definitely don't want to see Jacksonville move to a City Manager style government. Take a look at this list:

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/quadrennial/downloads/pdf/tables/Forms-of-Government.pdf

Of the big cities in America, only 8 of the top 25 use Council-Manager (Which is effectively City Manager). Interestingly, 4 of those 8 are in Texas.

My personal feeling is Jacksonville's problem isn't the government's structure. You can make a much better argument about Consolidation hurting the Urban Core (which I do feel to a point but think the positives outweigh the negatives) than the form of government being a problem.

For example, the US government worked pretty well in the 1990's, but isn't working well at all today. I don't know too many people that want to blow up the structure of the federal government. It's about the people.

[remc86007]

So back to the fountain. How many posters at MJ would pay 10% more in local taxes to properly maintain our parks and other public assets, further develop and promote DT, install a real fixed based transit system such as a street car, etc.  I would and I am retiring this year. Although not a believer of big federal spending, I am much more in favor of local taxation where we can better control what the money is used for. Of course the issue always becomes "where did the money go" as politics are always in play.

I'd pay 25% more in local taxes for those things. I would not, however, want people in lower income brackets to have to pay for it. I'm not sure there's a good way to do that though.

[Steve]

So back to the fountain. How many posters at MJ would pay 10% more in local taxes to properly maintain our parks and other public assets, further develop and promote DT, install a real fixed based transit system such as a street car, etc.  I would and I am retiring this year. Although not a believer of big federal spending, I am much more in favor of local taxation where we can better control what the money is used for. Of course the issue always becomes "where did the money go" as politics are always in play.

I'd pay 25% more in local taxes for those things. I would not, however, want people in lower income brackets to have to pay for it. I'm not sure there's a good way to do that though.

For just better maintenance? It's probably not that much at all to get things into much better shape. Even simple things like mowing the lawns at parks more often would be amazing.

I'm putting aside things like what's going on in front of the old courthouse. Let's pick up trash better. Let's keep vegetation living (meaning either water more or select better plants that can tolerate a dry spell). Let's fix broken stuff.

We do that it will go a long way.

[vicupstate]

I wonder how many of the Mayor-Council cities listed in Steve's link are also term-limited for the Mayor's office?

I think that is a BIG problem for JAX. Take 2 years to learn the ropes, Spend 1 year actually doing something. Spend 1 year running for re-election. Spend 1 year, maybe 2 actually doing something. Spend 1-2 years as a lame duck.  It also doesn't help that the new Mayor seems to ignore the possibility of building on what the last one had already started. 

Delaney got the ball rolling DT and then Peyton, with an assist from a bad economy, put the kibosh on that. Delaney expanded the Park/Conservation inventory exponentially, then Peyton dropped the ball to make the parks truly great.

Brown didn't build on Peyton's accomplishments, because there were none. Curry didn't build on Brown's accomplishments because he ran against his record.   

That is a lot of ramping up/ learning curve/ starting over going on.

[Steve]

I wonder how many of the Mayor-Council cities listed in Steve's link are also term-limited for the Mayor's office?

I think that is a BIG problem for JAX. Take 2 years to learn the ropes, Spend 1 year actually doing something. Spend 1 year running for re-election. Spend 1 year, maybe 2 actually doing something. Spend 1-2 years as a lame duck.  It also doesn't help that the new Mayor seems to ignore the possibility of building on what the last one had already started. 

Delaney got the ball rolling DT and then Peyton, with an assist from a bad economy, put the kibosh on that. Delaney expanded the Park/Conservation inventory exponentially, then Peyton dropped the ball to make the parks truly great.

Brown didn't build on Peyton's accomplishments, because there were none. Curry didn't build on Brown's accomplishments because he ran against his record.   

That is a lot of ramping up/ learning curve/ starting over going on.

It's a fair point, but here's one: Don't dump the entire government when you come into office!! Classic example:

In COJ Appointed Employment you have two types:

- Appointed Officials: These are folks like Sam Mousa, Mike Weinstein, etc. These go down to the Division Chief level. For example, the COJ's CIO is an Appointed official. These people serve at the pleasure of the Mayor, are appointed by City Council, and can be dumped at any time.

- Appointed Employee: These are the next level down. They aren't union, can be dumped at any time officially, but aren't appointed by the mayor. Think of these folks like your middle managers. These are the people that REALLY know what's going on day to day in city government. Generally, these people aren't considered political appointees.

Peyton broke an unwritten rule and dumped many of these people when he came into office. There are many reasons why things fell apart under Peyton, but this was a quiet one.

Long story short - If you don't dump these people, the learning curve shouldn't be THAT great.

[JaGoaT]

Everyone here stresses too much on what the city needs to do. The city is gonna be great its just gonna take time. There is serious money in the city and there are serious movers and shakers here. Jacksonville is on its way just be patient.

[Kerry]

And your reason for this optimism is what?  I've seen to many cities progressing while Jax is crawling (was going to say running but that implied an attemt to move rapidly) in circles.  For heavens sake, this is a thread about the deteriorating iconic signature feature of Jacksonville.  And if you say it isn't iconic or signature then you only prove the point about our sad state of affairs.

[Kerry]

The want to put a plan together?  Put a plan together to move to a City Manager government.  We don't keep a Mayor long enough to implement anything - just sweep up left over crumbs from previous admins.

The article wasn't terribly specific, but here's what I saw:

For the coming year, the top priorities are to inventory all the city's crime-fighting programs and set benchmarks for success, increase park maintenance, devise a comprehensive litter-control plan, develop downtown and enhance its public spaces, update the zoning code and bring redevelopment to Mayport.

Over the next three years, council members want to ramp up spending on public works, launch a "Jacksonville Journey 3.0" to mix prevention with enforcement for fighting crime, make downtown more lively, reduce homelessness and bring more activity to waterfront sites across the city.

For the five-year period, the goal of cutting violent crime was followed by making Jacksonville a "clean and well-maintained city" that also is prepared to withstand natural disasters like hurricanes. Phasing out septic tanks also landed on that list.

While I don't know that I agree with everything on the list, I can't say I think it's an awful list. Better maintenance is on all three lists, which I consider a positive as I think it's one of the largest issues in the city today. There were some ideas that I don't think should be there (the shade over the stadium I think is a good concept, but this needs to be a Jaguars-led initiative, as for the non-Jaguar marquee events at the stadium (Fl-Ga, Gator Bowl, etc.), the weather isn't brutally hot or the event is at night.

This isn't a bad exercise for a legislative body to do, frankly.

I definitely don't want to see Jacksonville move to a City Manager style government. Take a look at this list:

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/quadrennial/downloads/pdf/tables/Forms-of-Government.pdf

Of the big cities in America, only 8 of the top 25 use Council-Manager (Which is effectively City Manager). Interestingly, 4 of those 8 are in Texas.

I bolded your comment for emphasis - it might not be a bad thing for the Council to do but it sure as heck shouldn't be news worthy.  It begs the question, if this is revolutionary for the council what have they been doing all this time?  I kind of assume this was standard operating procedure.

The City Manager type of government wasn't even invented until the early 1900's and didn't gain popularity until the 1950's.  Corruption in the cities on that list with Strong Mayor is off the chart so not sure I would use them as good model.

[Adam White]

Everyone here stresses too much on what the city needs to do. The city is gonna be great its just gonna take time. There is serious money in the city and there are serious movers and shakers here. Jacksonville is on its way just be patient.

I-10? Is that you?

[Steve]

The want to put a plan together?  Put a plan together to move to a City Manager government.  We don't keep a Mayor long enough to implement anything - just sweep up left over crumbs from previous admins.

The article wasn't terribly specific, but here's what I saw:

For the coming year, the top priorities are to inventory all the city's crime-fighting programs and set benchmarks for success, increase park maintenance, devise a comprehensive litter-control plan, develop downtown and enhance its public spaces, update the zoning code and bring redevelopment to Mayport.

Over the next three years, council members want to ramp up spending on public works, launch a "Jacksonville Journey 3.0" to mix prevention with enforcement for fighting crime, make downtown more lively, reduce homelessness and bring more activity to waterfront sites across the city.

For the five-year period, the goal of cutting violent crime was followed by making Jacksonville a "clean and well-maintained city" that also is prepared to withstand natural disasters like hurricanes. Phasing out septic tanks also landed on that list.

While I don't know that I agree with everything on the list, I can't say I think it's an awful list. Better maintenance is on all three lists, which I consider a positive as I think it's one of the largest issues in the city today. There were some ideas that I don't think should be there (the shade over the stadium I think is a good concept, but this needs to be a Jaguars-led initiative, as for the non-Jaguar marquee events at the stadium (Fl-Ga, Gator Bowl, etc.), the weather isn't brutally hot or the event is at night.

This isn't a bad exercise for a legislative body to do, frankly.

I definitely don't want to see Jacksonville move to a City Manager style government. Take a look at this list:

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/quadrennial/downloads/pdf/tables/Forms-of-Government.pdf

Of the big cities in America, only 8 of the top 25 use Council-Manager (Which is effectively City Manager). Interestingly, 4 of those 8 are in Texas.

I bolded your comment for emphasis - it might not be a bad thing for the Council to do but it sure as heck shouldn't be news worthy.  It begs the question, if this is revolutionary for the council what have they been doing all this time?  I kind of assume this was standard operating procedure.

The City Manager type of government wasn't even invented until the early 1900's and didn't gain popularity until the 1950's.  Corruption in the cities on that list with Strong Mayor is off the chart so not sure I would use them as good model.

So is that your takeaway? That the Council should have been doing this the entire time and it shouldn't be newsworthy? If so then perhaps you're right....but again, I can't fault in doing it. This is why folks think you'd bitch about a winning lottery ticket and the length of the drive to Tallahassee to cash it. Perhaps you're correct that this shows fault in previous city council leadership. Whether or not the previous leadership was good or not is irrelevant in 2 days as Bowman is installed as President. How about be happy that they are doing it? I think we can agree that planning means nothing unless it's followed by good action.

In terms of the form of government, I guess we can agree to disagree. I believe that if people are corrupt, they will figure out a way to be corrupt in any form of government. Plus, I don't think that in Jacksonville rampant corruption hasn't been our recent downfall (let's be honest, EVERY government has some actions like unqualified appointees here and there). And yes, if Council Members Brown and Brown are found guilty, then that's really bad (and incredibly stupid). It definitely was a factor pre-consolidation. I feel that weak leadership has been the largest issue, and that can happen in any form of government.