The city moves to terminate the Landing's lease agreement.

[thelakelander]

In all honesty, what's stopping the city from just building the freaking parking garage and seeing what Sleiman actually does?

This means Sleiman would have a chance at success. Perhaps there's sentiment out there would rather success not happen if he actually financially benefits from it.

[KenFSU]

Surely a paltry $2-$3mil on a barely minimum 600-spot parking deck can be squeezed into the budget somewhere.

Multiply that by 10, and we're talking closer to the actual cost of the 800 spot garage noted in the lease.

[Adam White]

Surely a paltry $2-$3mil on a barely minimum 600-spot parking deck can be squeezed into the budget somewhere.

Multiply that by 10, and we're talking closer to the actual cost of the 800 spot garage noted in the lease.

A "first class" facility, right?

[Snaketoz]

In all honesty, what's stopping the city from just building the freaking parking garage and seeing what Sleiman actually does?

This means Sleiman would have a chance at success. Perhaps there's sentiment out there would rather success not happen if he actually financially benefits from it.

You are correct sir!  Lenny is only the puppet dangling from the strings of the politically connected.  I think their plan is to wrestle the Landing away from Sleiman using city money.  Somebody wants that property and they don't want Tony to be successful.

[remc86007]

I don't know the details about this mess, but as a casual observer, I think it's a bad look for the city to evict having seemingly not held up their end of the contract. Real confidence inspiring for future developers.

[Kerry]

Regardless of who is obligated to provide what, if 800 parking spaces was all that was standing between me and untold financial success and wealth I would build it myself then send the City the bill.  I would fight it out in court while I had cash rolling in - not how Sleiman is doing it.

[KenFSU]

Surely a paltry $2-$3mil on a barely minimum 600-spot parking deck can be squeezed into the budget somewhere.

Multiply that by 10, and we're talking closer to the actual cost of the 800 spot garage noted in the lease.

A "first class" facility, right?

Really, any class.

You can't build an 800-spot garage in 2018 for less than $20 million.

A first-class garage, with ground floor retail and modern amenities, would be closer to $30 million.

[Snaketoz]

Regardless of who is obligated to provide what, if 800 parking spaces was all that was standing between me and untold financial success and wealth I would build it myself then send the City the bill.  I would fight it out in court while I had cash rolling in - not how Sleiman is doing it.

When you don't own the land the Landing is standing on?

[Steve]

Regardless of who is obligated to provide what, if 800 parking spaces was all that was standing between me and untold financial success and wealth I would build it myself then send the City the bill.  I would fight it out in court while I had cash rolling in - not how Sleiman is doing it.

When you don't own the land the Landing is standing on?

Absolutely - this is a MAJOR point of contention with Sleiman, and would be tough for anyone. It's hard for a financier to give you money to develop land you don't own. They potentially will with something like a 99 year lease, but otherwise they usually won't.

Personally, I don't think Sleiman is the guy for the Landing, but this is 100% correct and not Sleiman's responsibility to develop it himself on land he doesn't own.

[jaxnyc79]

Regardless of who is obligated to provide what, if 800 parking spaces was all that was standing between me and untold financial success and wealth I would build it myself then send the City the bill.  I would fight it out in court while I had cash rolling in - not how Sleiman is doing it.

Bingo.  I had drafted the same posting this weekend, but then abandoned it because frankly, with issues like the Landing litigation, I'm finding the hurdles standing in the way of my idealized view of Downtown Jax to be so great and the progress so languid, that I find myself caring less. 

I can't understand why Sleiman would even want his firm and brand attached to the current decrepit state of the Landing, all because of the garage.  If all that's stood in the way of Landing Glory is a garage, then why, in nearly a generation of owning the building structures, has he never sued the city for nonperformance of its obligations under the lease?  And as a businessman, if it's taken nearly a generation to get a garage, what is he holding on to?  Sue the city for nonperformance, have the city make you whole on your purchase plus some reasonable return on investment, and return it back to the city?  I can't, for the life of me, understand why a so-called thriving real estate development business, is holding on to this dump and expecting to continue some real estate objective with a defaulting counterparty.

[thelakelander]

He has sued. There's also been points in the past where he and the city have worked together. If Alvin Brown didn't lose his reelection, we'd probably have a redeveloped Landing by now. Politics and public strategy change with each mayoral term. For Sleiman, Curry winning over Brown has made him and the Landing a loser in the downtown revitalization game.

[KenFSU]

^And Sleiman isn't the first Landing owner to sue either. The parking issue isn't between the city and Toney Sleiman, it's between the city and the Jacksonville Landing. A lot of people like to position the situation as Sleiman irrationally demanding a garage from the city, but the argument actually predates Sleiman's purchase of the building by at least 16 years.

The Rouse Company fled Jacksonville and offloaded the Landing in large part because of the parking issue.

After years of false promises, Rouse finally lost patience and took the parking issue court. The city was forced to waive Rouse's $100k lease payments and told that if it didn't build the promised garage for Rouse by February 2004 at the latest, they would be liable for monthly payments to Rouse for damages.

When Rouse saw the opportunity to exit, they sold to Sleiman, who was told that the city had a plan in place for the garage.

Here's City Council President Lad Daniels in 2003 on the city providing parking, when Sleiman was set to take on the Landing lease:

"There's no question about that. It's a no-brainer," he said. "The Landing is never going to work without parking and we should be prepared to meet that obligation. It's an essential part of the package."

Fair or unfair, the parking garage isn't Sleiman's responsibility.

[jaxnyc79]

^And Sleiman isn't the first Landing owner to sue either. The parking issue isn't between the city and Toney Sleiman, it's between the city and the Jacksonville Landing. A lot of people like to position the situation as Sleiman irrationally demanding a garage from the city, but the argument actually predates Sleiman's purchase of the building by at least 16 years.

The Rouse Company fled Jacksonville and offloaded the Landing in large part because of the parking issue.

After years of false promises, Rouse finally lost patience and took the parking issue court. The city was forced to waive Rouse's $100k lease payments and told that if it didn't build the promised garage for Rouse by February 2004 at the latest, they would be liable for monthly payments to Rouse for damages.

When Rouse saw the opportunity to exit, they sold to Sleiman, who was told that the city had a plan in place for the garage.

Here's City Council President Lad Daniels in 2003 on the city providing parking, when Sleiman was set to take on the Landing lease:

"There's no question about that. It's a no-brainer," he said. "The Landing is never going to work without parking and we should be prepared to meet that obligation. It's an essential part of the package."

Fair or unfair, the parking garage isn't Sleiman's responsibility.

So the City was in default when Sleiman acquired the property, and yet Sleiman forged ahead with the acquisition in the hopes that the city would suddenly change course and come into conformance?  Did Sleiman's arrangements with Alvin Brown include the city finally budgeting for, designing, RFP-ing and delivering on the long-standing promise of a garage, or did they decide "to hell with the garage, let's go after a much more grandiose project?"  If the garage was in the arrangement between Brown and Sleiman, was Jacksonville simply too broke to make good on the arrangements? 

While I believe much of Sleiman's suburban portfolio is either uninspired or hideous, and that it's a sad state of affairs in downtown Jax that all it can attract is a strip mall mogul for its signature waterfront complex, I don't have anything against him personally.  I was unaware that he had already proactively sued the city on the garage issue - just not sure why he bought into a deal with a defaulting counterparty in 2003 and suddenly expected conformance after 16 years of nonconformance...huh?

[Steve]

^And Sleiman isn't the first Landing owner to sue either. The parking issue isn't between the city and Toney Sleiman, it's between the city and the Jacksonville Landing. A lot of people like to position the situation as Sleiman irrationally demanding a garage from the city, but the argument actually predates Sleiman's purchase of the building by at least 16 years.

The Rouse Company fled Jacksonville and offloaded the Landing in large part because of the parking issue.

After years of false promises, Rouse finally lost patience and took the parking issue court. The city was forced to waive Rouse's $100k lease payments and told that if it didn't build the promised garage for Rouse by February 2004 at the latest, they would be liable for monthly payments to Rouse for damages.

When Rouse saw the opportunity to exit, they sold to Sleiman, who was told that the city had a plan in place for the garage.

Here's City Council President Lad Daniels in 2003 on the city providing parking, when Sleiman was set to take on the Landing lease:

"There's no question about that. It's a no-brainer," he said. "The Landing is never going to work without parking and we should be prepared to meet that obligation. It's an essential part of the package."

Fair or unfair, the parking garage isn't Sleiman's responsibility.

So the City was in default when Sleiman acquired the property, and yet Sleiman forged ahead with the acquisition in the hopes that the city would suddenly change course and come into conformance?  Did Sleiman's arrangements with Alvin Brown include the city finally budgeting for, designing, RFP-ing and delivering on the long-standing promise of a garage, or did they decide "to hell with the garage, let's go after a much more grandiose project?"  If the garage was in the arrangement between Brown and Sleiman, was Jacksonville simply too broke to make good on the arrangements? 

While I believe much of Sleiman's suburban portfolio is either uninspired or hideous, and that it's a sad state of affairs in downtown Jax that all it can attract is a strip mall mogul for its signature waterfront complex, I don't have anything against him personally.  I was unaware that he had already proactively sued the city on the garage issue - just not sure why he bought into a deal with a defaulting counterparty in 2003 and suddenly expected conformance after 16 years of nonconformance...huh?

It dates back further then that. He got royally F-ed by John Peyton in 2005ish (rumor is because Herb Peyton and Tony's Dad didn't like each other - not even kidding) when Peyton, who had been publicly backing Sleiman and his renovation plans (which were pretty good actually). Sleiman was willing to spend a lot of money (likely other peoples since the bank were still handing out money like it was Monopoly money) on the place, as long as the city kicked in for parking, and he wanted to buy the land at market rate.

[Kerry]

Not buying any of this - again, if all that stood between me and untold wealth was a parking garage I would have already built it - I don't care whose responsibility it was.  Even if I ended up losing my lease, I would still own an 800 space parking garage in the core of downtown Jax.  And just in case everything went south on me, I would build it with flat decks so it could be converted to housing.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/say-goodbye-to-garages-as-developers-imagine-a-driverless-future-1517317200