RFP Proposed for Convention Center

[acme54321]

Unless I'm reading it wrong or it's poorly written, it almost suggests that the section of Coastline currently being demo'd could eventually be rebuilt and developed on top of.

The city owns the submerged land so the powers to be could always build back on top of it.

[jaxnyc79]

A good convention center with parking and hotel/restaurant/entertainment complex should do well by the stadiums where it can share all those lots not being used most of the year, have a lot more room to access/build/expand (as the city grows), and be on the river.  Would also have synergies with the arena, stadium, baseball grounds, fairgrounds, Daily's Place, etc.  Note that Orlando's convention center was built miles from its downtown and it hasn't suffered.  Proper execution may be more important than location in the final analysis. 

If you put it at the old City Hall, space is much more confined, access and expansion is more limited/impossible as a result (can you see fleets of those large semi's delivering exhibition and large meeting items and materials?), and it will likely just be surrounded with more parking garages lacking retail to insure its failure  .  Building back over the water is also both expensive and destined for maintenance/storm issues for a lifetime.

I agree with this preliminary assessment.  I just don't think a convention center is a great idea for the old courthouse and city hall annex areas.  In addition to the area being space contrained and requiring more garage structures, I just think the scale of an exhibition hall takes away from the bustling village vibe that I hope can come to that part of the core.  Cluster all the mega-plexes for large assemblies in one area (sports district), and fill the inner core areas with a density of pedestrian accessible, more human-scale structures to create a village vibe, i.e. boutiques and artisanal posts and culinary retreats...

[thelakelander]

Orlando is a different animal. That place was Lakeland before Disney came to Central Florida. The convention center is in the heart of its tourism industry. Only over the last 20-25 years has Downtown Orlando grown into a fairly large CBD. Also an interesting model to look at is the convention center in DT Seattle. It's a compact site with a vertical convention center with street level retail space and hotel/office space above.  It's everything you would not exoect the average convention center to be. I don't know if Jax needs a 350 room hotel and 200k SF of exhibition space, but it will be interesting to see what the response is. My guess is, like the Cordish project, this feels like another piece of the Jag's Shipyards proposal being built elsewhere.

[FlaBoy]

Orlando is a different animal. That place was Lakeland before Disney came to Central Florida. The convention center is in the heart of its tourism industry. Only over the last 20-25 years has Downtown Orlando grown into a fairly large CBD. Also an interesting model to look at is the convention center in DT Seattle. It's a compact site with a vertical convention center with street level retail space and hotel/office space above.  It's everything you would not exoect the average convention center to be. I don't know if Jax needs a 350 room hotel and 200k SF of exhibition space, but it will be interesting to see what the response is. My guess is, like the Cordish project, this feels like another piece of the Jag's Shipyards proposal being built elsewhere.

The Washington State Convention Center should be Jax's model. It is beautiful and fits perfectly in the urban landscape. It has 205,700 worth of exhibition space which is about what the RPF asks for. It also has a Grand Hyatt attached to it. I honestly think it may make more sense for the Berkman II to become a hotel with the city's control over the property now than one right on site but we will see.

What is the deal with the Cordish project? Is that moving forward for sure?

[jaxlongtimer]

When Amazon builds its 50,000 employee HQ's in the stadium district, we will have "Downtown East" and they will support a massive convention center all by themselves.  Think what it would take just to host the company Xmas party  .  And, all will be good in J'ville!

[marcuscnelson]

When Amazon builds its 50,000 employee HQ's in the stadium district, we will have "Downtown East" and they will support a massive convention center all by themselves.  Think what it would take just to host the company Xmas party  .  And, all will be good in J'ville!

Damn straight! It's been too long since this city's had a sugar daddy to fix all of our problems!

All Praise to the Mighty Bezos!

[Lostwave]

Also an interesting model to look at is the convention center in DT Seattle. It's a compact site with a vertical convention center with street level retail space and hotel/office space above.  It's everything you would not exoect the average convention center to be.

The Seattle convention center is too small and causes Seattle to miss a ton of conventions.  The city/state are about to build a 1.2 billion expansion of it.  The reason it is so costly is because of the location.  If they would have built it near the sports complexes, the expansion would be waaaaaay less, because the warehouse land south of the stadiums is relatively cheap.

Convention centers really should be at the edge of the downtown, so patrons have access to downtown, but you don't fill downtown with giant windowless boxes.  In my opinion, the shipyards would be a perfect spot, plus it has access to an amphitheater for keynotes etc.  What we really need is for downtown to grow out to the sports complexes so it sits literally at the edge of downtown, instead of a mile from it.

[RattlerGator]

My guess is, like the Cordish project, this feels like another piece of the Jag's Shipyards proposal being built elsewhere.

Agreed.

But . . . that, from your perspective, is a *good* thing right?

The coming infrastructure push from President Trump (by the way, are you self-assured doubters still so doubtful one year in ? ? ? ) will likely have some nuggets for Big Duval. I think the City, and Iguana, see a unique opportunity to duplicate the dynamism of Indianapolis' sports district. A unique opportunity in (contrary to Ennis' stubborn take) an absolutely unique city.

A linear, walkable district on both sides of the river that conceptually says to hell with slavish central business concepts that simply don't apply to this River City with suburban beaches.

Beautiful beaches, wonderful waterways, active downtown . . . Duval!

We're damn close to making this happen. Contrary to what many of y'all have suspected, the Cordish opportunity (especially when combined with the Rummell District) along with the federal infrastructure push is the key. Given the prominence of Comcast/Xfinity in Northeast Florida, could an Xfinity Live facility be in our near future?

http://www.visitphilly.com/sports/philadelphia/xfinity-live-philadelphia/

Yeah, baby. Make it happen, Mr. Mayor.

[FlaBoy]

Also an interesting model to look at is the convention center in DT Seattle. It's a compact site with a vertical convention center with street level retail space and hotel/office space above.  It's everything you would not exoect the average convention center to be.

The Seattle convention center is too small and causes Seattle to miss a ton of conventions.  The city/state are about to build a 1.2 billion expansion of it.  The reason it is so costly is because of the location.  If they would have built it near the sports complexes, the expansion would be waaaaaay less, because the warehouse land south of the stadiums is relatively cheap.

Convention centers really should be at the edge of the downtown, so patrons have access to downtown, but you don't fill downtown with giant windowless boxes.  In my opinion, the shipyards would be a perfect spot, plus it has access to an amphitheater for keynotes etc.  What we really need is for downtown to grow out to the sports complexes so it sits literally at the edge of downtown, instead of a mile from it.

I think our point for a long time has been that the space is not too small for the convention market we would be in. Also, there is room to expand eventually where the Police Station is which was talked about by the task force in 2011.

[thelakelander]

Yes, scale is important when comparing the two. 200k SF of convention space may be too small for Seattle. However, Seattle is an international destination that's nearly 3 times larger than Jax. The courthouse site is on the edge of Jax's actual CBD and it's highly questionable that Jax could even fill 200k SF of exhibition space. I wouldn't be surprised if they get back responses that call for phased expansion to 200k SF when there's a market demand for that much SF. We've already know the results of building a convention center a mile away from the core. The Prime Osborn opened 32 years ago with 78,500SF of exhibition space and its isolated location has proved to be a detriment. For where Jax is right now, the old courthouse site is fine. It could be another 30 or 40 years down the road before Jax outgrows 200k SF of exhibition space. When that happens, it will probably be time to replace the police station and county jail across the street anyway. So when the time comes, that's an excellent adjacent publibly owned location for potential expansion needs. 

[thelakelander]

Also, the west end of the Shipyards is two blocks east. The downfall there is that the land is contaminated and isn't immediately adjacent to the Elbow or Hyatt. So whatever, it cost to build will end up being a lot more expensive, take longer to materialize and your economic benefit isn't any stronger.

[FlaBoy]

Also, the west end of the Shipyards is two blocks east. The downfall there is that the land is contaminated and isn't immediately adjacent to the Elbow or Hyatt. So whatever, it cost to build will end up being a lot more expensive, take longer to materialize and your economic benefit isn't any stronger.

Lake,

Thoughts on the future of the Berkman II if they build a convention center a block away?

Also, is it just me, or are these Cordish projects being talked about very similar to the Landing and the festival marketplace idea? Could the Mayor's push for the Landing have something to do with wanting Cordish to revitalize it or is it for certain going near the stadium as are most Cordish developments?

[jaxnyc79]

I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.  The city needs a huge dose of humility.  Maybe it's the same arrogance that keeps them from giving away land to private development or expecting much higher prices for downtown land sales than bids received.

Didn't a recent study say there isn't enough demand for a new convention center in Jax, although interest levels changed when shown pictures of a future, enhanced downtown?  Look - Downtown Jax has great potential, but it currently sucks, and will suck for the foreseeable future.  Work on it sucking a lot less, and then start the discussion on a convention center when there's a real and deep appeal to downtown for both locals and tourists, and the convention demand is intuitive.

Maybe if people start understanding how much downtown Jax sucks and we don't sugar coat that, there will be even more of a call to action and sustained leadership on its revival.

[thelakelander]

This is an RFP. Even if they get a good response, you're years away from seeing something built. I don't think issuing a RFP now is crazy if that's the vision for that site. Heck, I wish they'd issue RFPs for all the land they're sitting on downtown. We'll find out real quick what the demand is.

[thelakelander]

Also, the west end of the Shipyards is two blocks east. The downfall there is that the land is contaminated and isn't immediately adjacent to the Elbow or Hyatt. So whatever, it cost to build will end up being a lot more expensive, take longer to materialize and your economic benefit isn't any stronger.

Lake,

Thoughts on the future of the Berkman II if they build a convention center a block away?

I think Berkman II is completed before anything with a convention center materializes.