JTA opens test track to future for self-driving transit shuttles

[thelakelander]

The self-driving vehicle starts moving as silently as the computer that operates it and the electric battery that powers it.

There is none of the hiss that accompanies a train on electrified rails.

This transit vehicle runs on rubber tires and pavement as it glides down a test track opened Wednesday by the Jacksonville Transportation Authority.

It's not the most glamorous ride. The vehicle itself has a sleek design but doesn't make Skyway trains look yesteryear.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2017-12-20/jta-opens-test-track-future-self-driving-transit-shuttles

[Tacachale]

JTA's all in on these things, huh?

[thelakelander]

Sounds like it. It will be interesting to see how the public responds.

[Keith-N-Jax]

What a joke

[jaxjaguar]

Interesting. It says we'll be able to test them out in February and they'll be bringing in different models every 6 months so the public can weigh in on which ones they like best. I'm glad they're doing that

[tufsu1]

JTA's all in on these things, huh?

sadly it isn't just JTA - every city in Florida (and likely much of the country) seems hell bent on having these mini-buses running around.

[exnewsman]

JTA's all in on these things, huh?

sadly it isn't just JTA - every city in Florida (and likely much of the country) seems hell bent on having these mini-buses running around.

JTA is a bit more unique in that it must replace the Skyway and are choosing this next gen technology. This gives them the opportunity to continue using he elevated system where it exists in the core and expanding the system at ground level. Initially, the system would be in exclusive lanes and not in mixed traffic. That would come later as the technology advances.

This is not exactly the Jetsons flying around the city.

[thelakelander]

JTA is also unique in that it views this more as a replacement for a fixed transit system, as opposed to something the complements. Places like Orlando, Charlotte, etc. seem to be going in a totally different direction. I'm really concerned about the capacity of these things to move large volumes of transit users. If actually coordinated with land use policy to stimulate TOD, you'd hope ridership would significantly increase over time. If that's the case, are those little pods going to be able to handle the growth of a skyway that is more of a "trunk line" for the urban core as opposed to a lightly used circulator? Are we limited to the little shuttle buses continuously popping up in press releases and renderings or will we also experiment with larger vehicles that can still operate on the skyway's infrastructure? Do we really see mixing these things in with regular vehicle traffic as a plus or should we push to keep them on their own dedicated right-of-way? There are a lot of questions that need to be answered when you shift your thoughts to creating something that doesn't exist.

Overall, I'm just hoping we don't forget the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle when it comes to this stuff. One of the most frustrating things I've seen in Jax over the years is that we tend to overcomplicate the simple things needed for revitalization. As a result we spend way too much time and money on ideas that fail to deliver the desired goals.

[JeffreyS]

Would there be an additional cost if we mix at first then if it doesn't work add more dedicated?  I envision the elevated skyway and BRT lanes as great starts for dedicated lanes.

[thelakelander]

I view the mix as a bad idea. If you want to mix, just pay for a bus and call it a day. If you want something more reliable, predictable, scaleable and transformational on the urban environment surrounding it, then coordination with supportive land use policy and investment is critical. It's 2017 and we still don't have significant evidence in the US that BRT or anything without dedicated right-of-way has a great influence on shaping the built atmosphere around it. If you're not shaping the built environment and your goal is only transit focused, save the time and money and run buses (with drivers or without, doesn't really matter) on the regular street.

[exnewsman]

JTA is also unique in that it views this more as a replacement for a fixed transit system, as opposed to something the complements. Places like Orlando, Charlotte, etc. seem to be going in a totally different direction. I'm really concerned about the capacity of these things to move large volumes of transit users. If actually coordinated with land use policy to stimulate TOD, you'd hope ridership would significantly increase over time. If that's the case, are those little pods going to be able to handle the growth of a skyway that is more of a "trunk line" for the urban core as opposed to a lightly used circulator? Are we limited to the little shuttle buses continuously popping up in press releases and renderings or will we also experiment with larger vehicles that can still operate on the skyway's infrastructure? Do we really see mixing these things in with regular vehicle traffic as a plus or should we push to keep them on their own dedicated right-of-way? There are a lot of questions that need to be answered when you shift your thoughts to creating something that doesn't exist.

Overall, I'm just hoping we don't forget the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle when it comes to this stuff. One of the most frustrating things I've seen in Jax over the years is that we tend to overcomplicate the simple things needed for revitalization. As a result we spend way too much time and money on ideas that fail to deliver the desired goals.

It seems that Brad Thoburn and his team have a pretty good handle on this. One of the things he said at the launch event was that its all very fluid. So they are giving themselves at a minimum of two years for the evaluation (and longer if its needed). Most of the cars seem to handle about 12 people sitting and standing - some less, some more. That's all part of the evaluation process though, is it not. To see what works best for Jacksonville's needs with growth potential and some flexibility based on those growth trends.

Having an on-demand service would be great, especially with the 2-3 minute frequency that JTA wants to achieve with the U2C. If the technology produces what the U2C video proposes, having the cars travel based on the load - single or multi-car - then that is progress. I think you will end up with a system that has several times the amount of vehicles as the current Skyway that can do many more things as a transport vehicle.

Obviously, getting as much feedback from all different sources and potential users is critical to process. So take a test ride and ask questions when the track is open and see what its like. I know I will.

[thelakelander]

On-demand should be able to be achieved, even if we don't end up with 12 person pods. It would be good to also evaluate what's happening in other communities. In reality, Jax and its residents aren't exactly unique. What's been the feedback from pilot programs in other cities? Also, let's not forget about that land use component. What has been the impact in cities with similiar systems in place? As a lover of mobility choice and wanting Jax to live up to its potential, I'm only hoping for the best. However, the best will involve some critical issues that can't be resolved with a test track or completely answered by public response to rolling stock choices. For those answers hopefully they're evaluating the positives and negatives from other community's experiences.

[thelakelander]

This seems like a good pilot program to keep our eyes on, since vehicles are being run on the street in similar urban conditions. The results should partially help answer the question of 100% dedicated transit ROW verses mixing with on-street vehicular traffic.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.curbed.com/platform/amp/2017/11/9/16630842/driverless-shuttle-las-vegas-navya-keolis

[jaxnyc79]

There seems to be very little branding around TOD.  For example, is there a "walkable or TOD" zoning designation?  Is JTA working closely with the Planning Department and even Real Estate Developers on a coordinated approach to TOD - and not just in downtown, but all across the county?  For example, I read a Forbes article recently about shopping malls repurposed into affordable housing zones.  I know there's Vestcor in LaVilla, but what about Town and Country Plaza in Arlington...could that be a dense Vestcor housing project on that vast sea of parking?  Could there be covered walkways to an enclosed JTA Bus Station giving people quick access to Shopping Centers and Office Complexes, directly from the Complex?

[Ocklawaha]

As Lake has stated, I fear JTA in its zeal to be the next 'Star-Trek' of Mass Transit is once again jumping right off a freaking cliff.

These little pods were NEVER designed as primary transit vehicles, they were in fact designed as a solution to the biggest conundrum in the industry, IE: First and Last Mile solution. What do you do with a bus/train/boat full of passengers and what do they do when dumped at the new Jax Intermodal Station? You've got a continuous parade of City Routes and First Coast Flyer buses arriving and departing, potential for fixed rail or Brightline, Greyhound, with a top heavy commuter element AM and PM and they are thinking of scrapping an expandable high capacity elevated route cutting through most of downtown into a series of 12 passenger/15 MPH shuttle pods.

If the PODS operate on the Skyway then they can't fulfill their primary design purpose, they can't take you from door to door. Moving from the current Skyway to a elevated/surface Ultra-Light-Rail system, gives us the capacity to handle bulk by the trainload, and PODS provide the answer to how I get from Central Station to the Landing, Hyatt etc.