Developer proposes 13-story Southbank apartment tower

[jaxnyc79]

I don't understand the parking complaint. First, there are still more cars than units, and a lot of these are going to be single people living there. There are also plenty more spaces on the Baptist campus nearby that would be available for a fee. Second, if really doesn't have enough parking, it'll be the building that suffers, not the neighborhood, as people just won't move there if it doesn't have enough spaces. The traffic issue also seems pretty silly considering how much Baptist has exploded in recent years. 337 cars - most of which will probably be owned by people who work at Baptist - is just a blip compared to the impact of the rest of the campus.

...and now we understand...downtown revitalization is not just smart growth or economic development...it's a culture war:)

[remc86007]

^I agree that it is; but why is it?

[Jagsdrew]

Baptist needs to be open to this. I'm sure a lot of their employees are not from Jax and would prefer to live within a close distance of work.  Having this option would be more beneficial in my opinion than having the land vacant.

Plus, more riverfront residential options are needed in this city.

[thelakelander]

Thinking about this, I don't remember any opposition when the +800 foot twin tower project was proposed for this site in the mid-2000s. I wonder what changed since this project is significantly smaller?

[Jim]

Thinking about this, I don't remember any opposition when the +800 foot twin tower project was proposed for this site in the mid-2000s. I wonder what changed since this project is significantly smaller?

Did those projects reach the same stage of planning as this one has?  I think those never received much backlash due to the relative unlikeliness of the projects coming to fruition.

[MusicMan]

"I'm sure a lot of their employees are not from Jax and would prefer to live within a close distance of work."

Unless they want a private yard and some peace and quiet.  This will be a noisy location to say the least (Hello CSX train).

[lowlyplanner]

Why do we have parking requirements at all?  And the other urban design requirements?

According to my conversations with the DIA staff, no request for a parking variance has ever been turned down.

The various boards have shown that they will approve LITERALLY anything (see the Gate Station in Brooklyn, where the developer's attorney argued successfully that the driveway apron should be counted as a pedestrian plaza).

Given that, why go through the motions, and give neighbors the chance to delay projects with these kinds of appeals?  You don't even have to win the appeal to derail a project if the market turns, or tenants get sick of waiting.

Why not say: "If you want to build downtown, come down and do it.  If you want City money, meet our criteria (urban design, historic preservation, etc.)   If not, knock yourself out."

[thelakelander]

Thinking about this, I don't remember any opposition when the +800 foot twin tower project was proposed for this site in the mid-2000s. I wonder what changed since this project is significantly smaller?

Did those projects reach the same stage of planning as this one has?  I think those never received much backlash due to the relative unlikeliness of the projects coming to fruition.

The +600 foot Hines project that came after them, made it further. They made it to sales before the market blew up. If I recall, it was much larger ad well.

[heights unknown]

Thinking about this, I don't remember any opposition when the +800 foot twin tower project was proposed for this site in the mid-2000s. I wonder what changed since this project is significantly smaller?

Good point Lake; I'll bet there's something sinister behind the scenes that we don't know about than meets the eye.

[ralpho37]

Here's one theory regarding the "something sinister behind the scenes"...

Many of Baptist's high-level executives have office suites in the Aetna Building which face the east. These offices are located on the 9th floor if I'm not mistaken. It's relatively new office space which Baptist put a decent chunk of change into. If built, this new 13-story apartment tower will obstruct their admittedly awesome views of the city. There may be more to this dispute than meets the eye (no pun intended).

[howfam]

Maybe the developer can add two more levels of parking garage, giving the building 15 stories instead of 13. The building needs to be taller anyway.

[heights unknown]

I agree; it does need to be taller; how about 20 stories? Add a few more stories of parking garage to solve the parking situation. The design is ok; but It needs to be more standard and not like it is now, with a more contemporary design. It looks European or south American or something. And make it slightly more slender to maybe have even parking spaces around the building in addition to the parking garage (5 to 7 stories). I know; just a pipe dream, and most in this forum love the way the building was designed.

[Jim]

Hell, the previous projects Lake and I were discussing were both over 50 stories.  The original project even included 2 towers.

[jaxnyc79]

Hell, the previous projects Lake and I were discussing were both over 50 stories.  The original project even included 2 towers.

I'd like to focus less on how Jax looks from an interstate bridge or a plane or a drone, and more on how things look as a pedestrian walking along the sidewalk.  I also wish the project renderings had more images from ground level.  What will drive a sense of energy and vitality in the urban core, is the soundness and quality of the pedestrian experience.  I've seen amazing neighborhoods in cities all over the world with nothing but brownstones.  It's very unclear to me how this project integrates with the surrounding pedestrian experience.  Ultimately, I support any attempt to replace a parking lot with residents, but projects that are pedestrian-scale are key to a downtown of street-level vigor.

[thelakelander]

The plug was pulled on the St. John (tower in right photo above) exactly 10 years ago last week.

Weak market stalls second tower for The St. John

Development of a second luxury condominium tower downtown has been put on hold until the real estate market recovers.

Private developer Hines announced late Tuesday The St. John would not be built next to the Aetna Building on the Southbank "until real estate conditions in Northeast Florida are more favorable."

Local developer the LandMar Group earlier this month said it would delay building its first condominium tower at the Shipyards and focus on the mixed-use components of its urban community.

Houston-based Hines issued a statement of its intention to "monitor the market and move forward" with its plans for the 640,000-square-foot high-rise "at a later date."

Walt O'Shea, a vice president in Hines' Jacksonville office, said the company still views the project as viable.

"It's a long-term plan to develop the project we've concepted," O'Shea said in response to the real estate market's uncertain time frame for recovery.

"For us it's a long-term commitment to the project and the site, whether that's 18 or 24 months. ... We'll relaunch marketing when the time is right."

O'Shea declined to disclose the number of buyers or deposit amounts on The St. John, citing company policy.

Buyers will receive refunds on deposits, according to the news release.

Hines announced its plans for The St. John in 2005, with an unveiling last year of an all-glass design for the 300-unit tower. The company has a standing policy not to disclose the cost of its developments. The St. John was designed by Miami-based Arquitectonica International Corp. The project was scheduled to break ground in 2006, with construction finishing in 2008.

Its unique all-glass look and upscale style is something Barton is optimistic Jacksonville's skyline will still gain.

"Obviously, we're disappointed and would love to see that project go forward, and we think it will," Barton said.

"We won't get it immediately, but I'm optimistic we will."

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/103107/bus_213612256.shtml#.Wf8ZeFtSzIU