New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone

[downtownbrown]

Maybe.  Didn't I just read that the Hyatt just sold...

Marriott Delta is supposed to be some kind of business hotel plus interval ownership, which makes sense given the downtown/stadium event schedule. Maybe I'm just dreaming.

[KenFSU]

Mayor Curry's budget was approved this week, clearing the way for demolition of the Courthouse and Annex to begin early next year.

A couple of months ago, I was convinced that the only way that a convention center gets built in Jacksonville under public/private partnership was if we built at Met Park, adjacent to Khan's proposed hotel.

Based on some educated hunches, I'm gonna make a new prediction:

I think Curry and Iguana are going to team up on a new convention center at the site of the old Courthouse or Annex. The city will pay for the infrastructure improvements (Coastline, Courthouse, Annex demos) and maybe the land, and Iguana will pay for a large portion of construction costs. Bold Events will manage the venue.

As others have mentioned, I think the Berkman II will be completed as a hotel, with the understanding that a new convention center will be constructed next door. I almost wonder if Iguana will be involved with this as well.

Further, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Curry/Iguana's secretive meetings with Cordish were about a development on part of the Annex or Courthouse property, rather than on the Shipyards or Metro Park.

The Shipyards project is realistically going to take a long, long time to get off the ground. The ramps need to come down. The Shipyards property needs remediation, and even Metro Park is turning out to be more contaminated than originally believed.

And the Jaguars want revenue now.

The original Shipyards plan called for an amphitheater and practice field. What happened when remediation was stalling progress? They built elsewhere as quickly as they could.

I think we're going to see the same thing happen here, with the convention center, hotel, and mixed use shifted back toward the CBD.

I could be totally wrong, but to me, it's a far more desirable option both in the short-term and the long-term.

[FlaBoy]

Mayor Curry's budget was approved this week, clearing the way for demolition of the Courthouse and Annex to begin early next year.

A couple of months ago, I was convinced that the only way that a convention center gets built in Jacksonville under public/private partnership was if we built at Met Park, adjacent to Khan's proposed hotel.

Based on some educated hunches, I'm gonna make a new prediction:

I think Curry and Iguana are going to team up on a new convention center at the site of the old Courthouse or Annex. The city will pay for the infrastructure improvements (Coastline, Courthouse, Annex demos) and maybe the land, and Iguana will pay for a large portion of construction costs. Bold Events will manage the venue.

As others have mentioned, I think the Berkman II will be completed as a hotel, with the understanding that a new convention center will be constructed next door. I almost wonder if Iguana will be involved with this as well.

Further, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Curry/Iguana's secretive meetings with Cordish were about a development on part of the Annex or Courthouse property, rather than on the Shipyards or Metro Park.

The Shipyards project is realistically going to take a long, long time to get off the ground. The ramps need to come down. The Shipyards property needs remediation, and even Metro Park is turning out to be more contaminated than originally believed.

And the Jaguars want revenue now.

The original Shipyards plan called for an amphitheater and practice field. What happened when remediation was stalling progress? They built elsewhere as quickly as they could.

I think we're going to see the same thing happen here, with the convention center, hotel, and mixed use shifted back toward the CBD.

I could be totally wrong, but to me, it's a far more desirable option both in the short-term and the long-term.

If that plays out, it would be pretty amazing for Jax. Convention Center, 5 star hotel, Marriott, on top of the space at the Hyatt, along with some Cordish entertainment aspect all on Bay Street in the urban core... Sign me up. I wonder if the Landing plays into this at all in what the Mayor was doing pushing the envelope on that as well...

[Westside Guy]

The old city courthouse site is literally the best spot in downtown for a new convention center.  It's central to downtown, unlike the current one, the city owns the property already, and maybe one day when we finally decide to expand the skyway, it will be super easy to run it down bay street to that area.

[Bill Hoff]

Mayor Curry's budget was approved this week, clearing the way for demolition of the Courthouse and Annex to begin early next year.

A couple of months ago, I was convinced that the only way that a convention center gets built in Jacksonville under public/private partnership was if we built at Met Park, adjacent to Khan's proposed hotel.

Based on some educated hunches, I'm gonna make a new prediction:

I think Curry and Iguana are going to team up on a new convention center at the site of the old Courthouse or Annex. The city will pay for the infrastructure improvements (Coastline, Courthouse, Annex demos) and maybe the land, and Iguana will pay for a large portion of construction costs. Bold Events will manage the venue.

As others have mentioned, I think the Berkman II will be completed as a hotel, with the understanding that a new convention center will be constructed next door. I almost wonder if Iguana will be involved with this as well.

Further, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Curry/Iguana's secretive meetings with Cordish were about a development on part of the Annex or Courthouse property, rather than on the Shipyards or Metro Park.

The Shipyards project is realistically going to take a long, long time to get off the ground. The ramps need to come down. The Shipyards property needs remediation, and even Metro Park is turning out to be more contaminated than originally believed.

And the Jaguars want revenue now.

The original Shipyards plan called for an amphitheater and practice field. What happened when remediation was stalling progress? They built elsewhere as quickly as they could.

I think we're going to see the same thing happen here, with the convention center, hotel, and mixed use shifted back toward the CBD.

I could be totally wrong, but to me, it's a far more desirable option both in the short-term and the long-term.

Yes please.

[FlaBoy]

Ennis, are you hearing anything new?

[downtownbrown]

I'm not so sure Khan would be interested in developing the convention center at the courthouse site, but there may be plenty of others who will.  With someone deciding to buy the Hyatt, and if Marriott comes in just next door, developers can do the math.  And the new riverfront between the Hyatt and the Riverwalk Townhomes will be ripe for waterfront venues.  All of this may even incentivize Sleiman to up his game to stay competitive at the Landing.  The next 5 or 10 years should be fun to watch.

[thelakelander]

Ennis, are you hearing anything new?

No. Curry mentioned working with a group interested in developing a hotel and convention center at the old courthouse site, a few months back, at a meeting with the Times Union. I'm still of the opinion that the money earmarked in the budget to demolish the old City Hall Annex and courthouse is key in facilitating a public private partnership there. However, I don't know who that group is or if they are affiliated with Khan.

[FlaBoy]

Ennis, are you hearing anything new?

No. Curry mentioned working with a group interested in developing a hotel and convention center at the old courthouse site, a few months back, at a meeting with the Times Union. I'm still of the opinion that the money earmarked in the budget to demolish the old City Hall Annex and courthouse is key in facilitating a public private partnership there. However, I don't know who that group is or if they are affiliated with Khan.

Thanks! Hoping for the best on this one. If the Laura St. Trio and Convention Center/Berkman get going, that will be quite the transformation in downtown.

[KenFSU]

I'm not so sure Khan would be interested in developing the convention center at the courthouse site, but there may be plenty of others who will.

Just curious, why don't you think Khan would be interested in developing a convention center at the Courthouse site? He's expressed clear interest in developing a hotel, convention center, and mixed-use for the last several years. Khan considers them to be important additional revenue streams to keep the Jags business stable in Jacksonville. He's launched Bold Events, which is already positioning itself in the convention space.

What's inherently special about the Metro Park site, aside from being adjacent to the stadium his team plays at nine times a year?

If I'm Khan, let's break down the options:

Option 1 - Negotiate a development agreement with the city to build a hotel and convention space in the stadium district. Fight with the state in perpetuity about the removal of the Hart Bridge ramps. Negotiate a land swap for Metro Park. Demolish Met Park. Design a replacement. Remediate the land, as well an any adjacent Shipyards property that would be involved. Extend the riverwalk. Build a convention center/hotel/mixed use in isolation, more than a mile from the central business district. Make improvements to Bay Street, better connecting the new development with the CBD.

Option 2 - Once demolition of the old Courthouse site is complete, on the city's tab, negotiate a deal to develop a convention center/hotel/mixed use on prime riverfront space, directly in the central business district, on a newly built riverwalk. Improve connectivity between CBD and stadium district.

On the surface, unless there's some reason that Iguana is just totally married to the idea of developing adjacent to the stadium, it seems like a no-brainer.

Ground won't be turned, and revenue won't be realized, on Option 1 for YEARS, with the whole plan hinging on unknowns outside of the Khan's control (will the state give us $60 million to remove the ramps? how much will Shipyards remediation cost? how much will Met Park remediation cost? will the land swap be approved?). This is going to be a long-term, very, very expensive project for all involved.

Conversely, Option 2 could be under construction as early as next year and generating revenue by 2019.

Even putting the logistics aside, to me, the old Courthouse site, right in the heart of the city, adjacent to the city's biggest hotels and a stone's throw from the Laura Street Trio, Landing, Elbow, etc. seems like a much more lucrative opportunity for Iguana than building in isolation.

[thelakelander]

Interesting assumptions. The only thing I'll add is I was told that mayor's office is concerned about improving connectivity/access between downtown, the courthouse site and the sports district.

[downtownbrown]

I hope Khan is interested, and your points are good ones.  My impression, however, is that he wants his empire around the stadium.  But really, it's an easy mosey from the Berkman to the stadium, and an expanded boulevard with mass transportation alternatives (bring back the trolleys?) would seem to work just fine.

[FlaBoy]

The key would be the connectivity to the stadium because for larger conventions I am sure a pitch would be use of the stadium, amphitheater and IPF if Bold Events ran the convention business in town. Getting people from the convention center to the stadium would be the hang up. To get to the amphitheater from the old Courthouse is a .9 mile walk and 17 minutes according to google.

[downtownbrown]

that's why I think bringing back the trolleys on a constant loop during events would be great.  Riverside to the Stadium.

[KenFSU]

The key would be the connectivity to the stadium because for larger conventions I am sure a pitch would be use of the stadium, amphitheater and IPF if Bold Events ran the convention business in town. Getting people from the convention center to the stadium would be the hang up. To get to the amphitheater from the old Courthouse is a .9 mile walk and 17 minutes according to google.

I'd almost think of this in the opposite way. With a convention center at the old Courthouse site, yes, there would be some difficulty in getting people from the convention center to the stadium for the 10% of events large enough to utilize all three venues. But, with a convention center at Met Park, you'd have a much bigger problem in getting people from the stadium to the downtown core for the other 90% of the more typical events.

To me, you run into the same connectivity problem either way.

I'd love to see some form of fixed transportation between the sports complex and old Courthouse site, but the more immediate answer might be the new pilot program that JTA is readying for autonomous vehicles. This corridor was specifically cited, along with Riverside, for the pilot program, and I imagine they could have it online in time for any new convention center.



And if we're talking conspiracy theory, in terms of a mixed-use component, the secretive Curry trip with Khan and Lamping to see the Cordish developments in St. Louis, Kansas City, and Baltimore, to me, also suggests a location somewhere near the old Courthouse/Annex as well. He released his draft budget in July, which included the demolition of those properties, and just days later, he went on an off-the-books cross-country tour with Iguana to tour those developments. He called back before the trip was even over to talk funding such a development.

We're YEARS away from being able to build anything on the Shipyards property. Why the rushed trip to all these different spots if we're talking Shipyards?