Investing in the Eastside of Jacksonville

[InterestedInJacksonville]

Hello all,

I'm not from Jacksonville but have been lurking these forums for a while. I am looking to purchase a few homes (Single family, but also open to multi-family) in Jacksonville's Eastside neighborhood.

https://www.google.com/search?q=eastside+jacksonville

I know Springfield is one of the hottest, if not the hottest, neighborhood to buy into but the price increase in the Eastside has been far less which is what attracts me to it. From what I see online using Google Maps, the neighborhood doesn't have much going on besides a few parks. Other than that it's all single family homes, a few barber shops, just 1-2 restaurants, and I believe no actual grocery stores (Though there are 1-2 convenience stores).

That said, it is very close to the Jaguars Stadium, Fair Grounds, and downtown. It is also just about as close as you can get to the Shipyards Project if and when that does happen. I'd be looking to hold long-term so even if nothing happens for the next 5 years, that would be fine.

The homes are not as nice architecturally as Springfield, but the positive to that for me is that I don't have to deal with a historic/preservation agency in SPAR.

I would essentially be rennovating these homes from the inside and then renting them out.

At some point, if zoning permits, I would like to buy land there as well and develop some sort of mixed-use project that has shops/restaurants/retail on the ground floor and then apartments above. But that's a long ways into the future - and no idea if zoning would even allow for it.

TLDR version: So my question is -

Is is worth trying to buy into the Eastside? I know Springfield is doing better now, but is it a wise move going forward.

And is there anything I should know about the neighborhood that would be a strong pro/con for going there (Environmental issues, underlying issues, etc)?

Thanks in advance and I look forward to talking on here.

[Jim]

Welcome to the community.

Given you are thinking long term, it's a pretty good plan. The current lack of anything multi-use, restaurants, retail, etc....opens up the door for just about anyone willing to go first.  The further east you go, you the more environmental issues you might encounter given the industrial nature of the area.

I'm short on time or I'd give you some more pro/con details.

Good luck.

[Tacachale]

It depends entirely on how much of a pioneer you want to be. I've said for years that Eastside is my long bet for a future "next great neighborhood". It has all the things that people like about Riverside, Springfield, and San Marco - cool old homes, urban development pattern and "grit", easy access to downtown and other parts of the Urban Core. When revitalization does come to the Eastside, I think it'll be quicker than it happened in Springfield, as the houses are generally smaller and don't require so much to fix up.

But there are a lot of downsides. The neighborhood is impoverished and depressed. Revitalization will pretty much contingent on Springfield's momentum, and that's been up and down for 20 years. There's very little that's gotten started so far in the Eastside - few of the restaurants, bars and shops that are cropping up in Springfield, not much happening in real estate. Most of the commercial strip on APR  There's also a perception that this is a "bad" neighborhood, and that'll have a real effect on renters. I don't see those things changing much in the next 5 years; 10, maybe.

But if your goal is to get in on the ground floor in a really cool neighborhood, this would be an awesome place to do it. I think once the ball starts rolling for Eastside, it'll roll faster than folks expect.

[FlaBoy]

Eastside definitely has potential if the Stadium District there really starts heading in the right direction even without the Shipyards. With the Shipyards and the Stadium District revitalizing, the southern portions of Eastside would see development IMO. I think Eastside, Brentwood, and Lockawana are the areas that could see significant development in the next 10-20 years that are currently off the radar.

[Adam White]

Eastside definitely has potential if the Stadium District there really starts heading in the right direction even without the Shipyards. With the Shipyards and the Stadium District revitalizing, the southern portions of Eastside would see development IMO. I think Eastside, Brentwood, and Lockawana are the areas that could see significant development in the next 10-20 years that are currently off the radar.

I always liked Durkeeville and at one time considered trying to buy a house there. One of my best friends in high school lived in Lackawanna - that was back in the 80s. It was pretty rough then. I always assumed it would gentrify, given its proximity to Riverside and Murray Hill.

[ProjectMaximus]

I think it's a pretty good idea. Are you local now or planning to come?

[InterestedInJacksonville]

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies and warm welcome!

This information is extremely useful. It's good to hear that there is potential in spite of some issues.

I'll try to find out more about environmental issues. I am trying to stay West of US-1 and south of East 1st St, which should hopefully allow for that to be avoided. It looks like East of US-1 has a lot of industrial activity. 

The fact that it has a bad perception is worrisome, though that should change over time as mentioned. Definitely would have to be a pioneer in many ways, which would be cool though I strongly question my ability to do that lol. I do think the neighborhood should change quick once things catch on, and that the entry price will likely be lower than Springfield. Less regulation from authorities compared to a Historic District, and also smaller home sizes so those that need renovation won't be as costly of a fix as in Springfield.

One odd thing I noticed is that even pieces of land on A. Philip Randolph are zoned single-family residential. I would think everything there should be zoned Commercial or multi-purpose.

I will definitely look at Brentwood/Lackawanna. I've seen some great deals on paper in Brentwood but have overlooked them thus far because I wasn't sure if the area has a lot of potential.

@ProjectMaximus
I'm planning to come in July hopefully. I'm from southern California but prices here are way too high for any sort of respectable return to be earned - $400K minimum for homes in the worst neighborhoods. Though appreciation of one's property value is significant here. 

[Bill Hoff]

Fyi:
http://floridapolitics.com/archives/229078-lisc-unveils-ambitious-redevelopment-plan-jacksonvilles-eastside

TerraWise, the main new home builder in the Springfield Historic District, is literally running out of lots to build on. They just bought lots outside the historic district, but near by,  because of the scarcity/demand. If the Shipyards get started, investment in the Eastside neighborhood will happen *relatively* quickly. People forget SPR was doing extremely well prior to the gigantic housing bubble burst, and has almost returned to that level now.

[InterestedInJacksonville]

Fyi:
http://floridapolitics.com/archives/229078-lisc-unveils-ambitious-redevelopment-plan-jacksonvilles-eastside

TerraWise, the main new home builder in the Springfield Historic District, is literally running out of lots to build on. They just bought lots outside the historic district, but near by,  because of the scarcity/demand. If the Shipyards get started, investment in the Eastside neighborhood will happen *relatively* quickly. People forget SPR was doing extremely well prior to the gigantic housing bubble burst, and has almost returned to that level now.

Thanks for sharing that article, Bill! I have been trying to find information on the neighborhood and plans for its development for a couple weeks now, and this is the most detailed news I've read.

Interesting that they are focusing on the lower portion of A Philip Randolph Blvd first and that they are hoping to add in multi-family units there. I found a piece of land in that exact region but unfortunately it is zoned CCG-2. I would have loved to try and develop that (If it were financially possible for me to get such a thing done or in a partnership with others) into a combination of shops/restaurants/businesses on the ground floor and apartments above - but with CCG-2 multifamily is not possible. Perhaps office space above the ground floor would work but I'm not sure if there's a huge demand for it.

[ProjectMaximus]

but with CCG-2 multifamily is not possible. Perhaps office space above the ground floor would work but I'm not sure if there's a huge demand for it.

Or maybe self-storage above the retail? Apparently some developers see demand for that in the urban core. But then you'd be a pioneer in more ways than one.

Let me know when you might be in Jax. I think we should have lunch.

[InterestedInJacksonville]

but with CCG-2 multifamily is not possible. Perhaps office space above the ground floor would work but I'm not sure if there's a huge demand for it.

Or maybe self-storage above the retail? Apparently some developers see demand for that in the urban core. But then you'd be a pioneer in more ways than one.

Let me know when you might be in Jax. I think we should have lunch.

Interesting you mentioned self-storage.

I looked it up when I got back home and found that it is going to be self-storage facility. Didn't make sense to me that such prime land would be used for that of all things, but perhaps there is indeed a demand for it these days. It would net great returns I'm sure.

One thing I noticed is that CCG-2 has hotel/motel zoning. I wonder if there would be a demand for that. From what I'm seeing there are only two downtown (Hyatt and the Omni) and then a couple across Main St. Bridge towards San Marco.

I'd love to have lunch and will definitely send you a message when I'm sure of my dates. Hoping for July but if not than in August. It's great to meet people that are passionate about their city and know what's going on.

[FlaBoy]

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies and warm welcome!

This information is extremely useful. It's good to hear that there is potential in spite of some issues.

I'll try to find out more about environmental issues. I am trying to stay West of US-1 and south of East 1st St, which should hopefully allow for that to be avoided. It looks like East of US-1 has a lot of industrial activity. 

The fact that it has a bad perception is worrisome, though that should change over time as mentioned. Definitely would have to be a pioneer in many ways, which would be cool though I strongly question my ability to do that lol. I do think the neighborhood should change quick once things catch on, and that the entry price will likely be lower than Springfield. Less regulation from authorities compared to a Historic District, and also smaller home sizes so those that need renovation won't be as costly of a fix as in Springfield.

One odd thing I noticed is that even pieces of land on A. Philip Randolph are zoned single-family residential. I would think everything there should be zoned Commercial or multi-purpose.

I will definitely look at Brentwood/Lackawanna. I've seen some great deals on paper in Brentwood but have overlooked them thus far because I wasn't sure if the area has a lot of potential.

@ProjectMaximus
I'm planning to come in July hopefully. I'm from southern California but prices here are way too high for any sort of respectable return to be earned - $400K minimum for homes in the worst neighborhoods. Though appreciation of one's property value is significant here.

If you are looking for less risky investment areas, check out Murray Hill and Lake Shore or across the river in the St. Nicholas/Spring Park area. All of those are relatively historic neighborhoods that have small urban shopping strips that are in different phases of hopefully revitalizing. They are also all near the current most desirable neighborhoods in Jax.

Also, wait until at least late September to visit lol. It is never a good idea for a Cali guy to come to the South during July. 

[vicupstate]

At the risk of being called a 'Debbie Downer', my advise would be to proceed with extreme caution.

Springfield is still short of recovering from the housing bust. There are still bargains there and I would look there.  Main St looks like it might finally be reaching a turning point that has been a long time coming.     

I do not expect the Eastside to do anything at all for at least 5 years probably 10. The small house size is a drawback IMO. The draw of Springfield is the low price with high SF. Riverside had the same situation a few decades back.  You only have the first part with Eastside.   

[Bill Hoff]

Springfield is still short of recovering from the housing bust. There are still bargains there and I would look there.

Could you point out these bargins, please? I guess that's subjective, but ask the local Realtors that specialize in Springfield - bargins are an endangered species.

[Tacachale]

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies and warm welcome!

This information is extremely useful. It's good to hear that there is potential in spite of some issues.

I'll try to find out more about environmental issues. I am trying to stay West of US-1 and south of East 1st St, which should hopefully allow for that to be avoided. It looks like East of US-1 has a lot of industrial activity. 

Good to hear. That zone is probably a good bet for Eastside. The closer you are to the stadium district, the easier it would be to sell on that point.

The fact that it has a bad perception is worrisome, though that should change over time as mentioned. Definitely would have to be a pioneer in many ways, which would be cool though I strongly question my ability to do that lol. I do think the neighborhood should change quick once things catch on, and that the entry price will likely be lower than Springfield. Less regulation from authorities compared to a Historic District, and also smaller home sizes so those that need renovation won't be as costly of a fix as in Springfield.

Perceptions do change with time, but here it will be years. Not to be a debbie downer like Vic, but even a lot of the gentrifier types moving to Springfield would probably not consider moving to the Eastside. On the other hand, a lot of people in town don't even know about Eastside so the perception may change faster than it did in some other revitalizing areas.

Re home size, I think you have the right idea. One issue for Springfield has been the high bar of entry - you had to have either a lot of money/resources/elbow grease to fix up such large homes. It will take less to fix up the smaller, cheaper properties in Eastside.

One odd thing I noticed is that even pieces of land on A. Philip Randolph are zoned single-family residential. I would think everything there should be zoned Commercial or multi-purpose.

If that's true, it's definitely odd. However, zoning of that nature can change, especially if it's something the neighborhood interests push for.

I will definitely look at Brentwood/Lackawanna. I've seen some great deals on paper in Brentwood but have overlooked them thus far because I wasn't sure if the area has a lot of potential.

Brentwood definitely has long-term potential, but like Eastside, it depends on the momentum from Springfield, and there's not a lot going on as of yet. But yeah, tons of opportunity in urban Jax for those with patience and work ethic.

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies and warm welcome!

This information is extremely useful. It's good to hear that there is potential in spite of some issues.

I'll try to find out more about environmental issues. I am trying to stay West of US-1 and south of East 1st St, which should hopefully allow for that to be avoided. It looks like East of US-1 has a lot of industrial activity. 

The fact that it has a bad perception is worrisome, though that should change over time as mentioned. Definitely would have to be a pioneer in many ways, which would be cool though I strongly question my ability to do that lol. I do think the neighborhood should change quick once things catch on, and that the entry price will likely be lower than Springfield. Less regulation from authorities compared to a Historic District, and also smaller home sizes so those that need renovation won't be as costly of a fix as in Springfield.

One odd thing I noticed is that even pieces of land on A. Philip Randolph are zoned single-family residential. I would think everything there should be zoned Commercial or multi-purpose.

I will definitely look at Brentwood/Lackawanna. I've seen some great deals on paper in Brentwood but have overlooked them thus far because I wasn't sure if the area has a lot of potential.

@ProjectMaximus
I'm planning to come in July hopefully. I'm from southern California but prices here are way too high for any sort of respectable return to be earned - $400K minimum for homes in the worst neighborhoods. Though appreciation of one's property value is significant here.

If you are looking for less risky investment areas, check out Murray Hill and Lake Shore or across the river in the St. Nicholas/Spring Park area. All of those are relatively historic neighborhoods that have small urban shopping strips that are in different phases of hopefully revitalizing. They are also all near the current most desirable neighborhoods in Jax.

Also, wait until at least late September to visit lol. It is never a good idea for a Cali guy to come to the South during July. 

Ha!

Definitely look at Murray Hill, at least as an example of a burgeoning success story. The neighborhood has already been "found" so there are fewer and fewer opportunities for those wanting to do what you're doing. You won't find many homes less than $100k, for instance. Lake Shore is probably similar as far as finding deals go.