The Rise and Fall of an African American Inner City

Started by Metro Jacksonville, April 03, 2017, 06:35:01 AM

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Metro Jacksonville

April 03, 2017, 06:35:01 AM
The Rise and Fall of an African American Inner City



The Case of Parramore, an African American community in Orlando that has been almost erased from history.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2017-apr-the-rise-and-fall-of-an-african-american-inner-city

I-10east

#1
April 03, 2017, 09:23:15 PM Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 12:30:19 AM by I-10east
IMO the most successful black neighborhoods in the US are in middle to upper income suburban areas by far. Any successful urban black area is few and far between. They (urban black areas) are mostly very undesirable places to live. We can simply blame the evil big and bad highway (which I'm not sold on), or whatever, but urban black areas (highway running through or not) are synonymous with danger, drugs, dilapidation etc etc.

Today I wanted to get some wings from the Myrtle wing place (but didn't because of long line), so I rode through Blue St and 5th area, and holy crap it's looks like a war zone! Busted out windows, boarded up places etc. I'm VERY familiar with that area (stayed in Durkeeville for awhile as a kid) and it never was Avondale by no means, but I never saw it looking that bad; shades of Detroit.

I remember in the 80s and even 90s when we used to could have an honest convo about the demise of the black community. Single fathers leaving the family, leaving mothers to try to raise kids by themselves being one of the man issues. Another issue could be the child support system in itself, which tends to target and criminalize men. When talking about black issues like this NOW, everything is simply racism. Just play the blame game, and infantilize the black community, because that has such a good track record...

Midnight basketball, paying criminals not to commit crime, throwing mega money at the problem (like schools in Newark), these politicians have tried it all, (even given entire cities to blacks) but the neighborhoods still are dangerous and look like crap.   

thelakelander

#2
April 03, 2017, 09:34:55 PM
I spent some time in the new AA history museum in DC last week.  Here's a few displays from the museum you may not agree with, regarding urban black neighborhoods across the country:









"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

#3
April 03, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: I-10east on April 03, 2017, 09:23:15 PM
IMO the most successful black neighborhoods in the US are in middle to upper income suburban areas by far. Any successful urban black area is few and far between. They (urban black areas) are mostly very undesirable places to live. We can simply blame the evil big and bad highway (which I'm not sold on), or whatever, but urban black areas (highway running through or not) are synonymous with danger, drugs, dilapidation etc etc.

Highways intentionally being built to divide and destroy minority neighborhoods during the 50s and 60s are a well proven fact at this point.  With that said, the major downfall of most historical urban black communities was desegregation.  Black flight and it's impact on neighborhoods once economically supported by the upper and black middle class was an unintended consequence of the civil rights era.

QuoteToday I wanted to get some wings from the Myrtle wing place (but didn't because of long line), so I rode through Blue St and 5th area, and holy crap it's looks like a war zone! Busted out windows, boarded up places etc. I'm VERY familiar with that area (stayed in Durkeeville for awhile as a kid) and it never wasn't Avondale by no means, but I never saw it looking that bad; shades of Detroit.

Yeah, those neighborhoods suffer from many of the same ailments neighborhoods in Detroit, Camden, Gary, etc. face.  A major loss of manufacturing jobs, commercial districts declining since the 60s, black flight, poverty, hopelessness, a lack of economic development, etc. These places tend to be overlooked down here because we're rapidly growing in areas farther away from downtown, which masks the 50 year plus population decline in neighborhoods like New Town.

QuoteI remember in the 80s and even 90s when we used to could have an honest convo about the demise of the black community. Single fathers leaving the family, leaving mothers to try to raise kids by themselves being one of the man issues. Another issue could be the child support system in itself, which tends to target and criminalize men. When talking about black issues like this NOW, everything is simply racism. Just play the blame game, and infantilize the black community, because that has such a good track record...

Urban development and policies that drive growth patterns are much more complex than single mother households, child support, etc.  With that said, there's a lot of things that can be improved but overall we're better now than we've ever been.  Things weren't so peachy cream with slavery and another 100 years of Jim Crow.

QuoteMidnight basketball, paying criminals not to commit crime, throwing mega money at the problem (like schools in Newark), these politicians have tried it all, (even given entire cities to blacks) but the neighborhoods still are dangerous and look like crap.

Given entire cities to blacks?  Good grief.  Abandoning a city and leaving all its debt to the remaining low income population to figure it out, rarely results in success, no matter what the race is.  With that said, when there's a viable economic base to work with, cities prosper regardless of racial makeup.  Although rapidly gentrifying, Miami, Atlanta and DC are three examples of this.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

spuwho

#4
April 04, 2017, 12:56:58 AM
All of the road building breaking black communities was wrong and yes, planners did take advantage of several situations.

The economics of black ownership unfortunately made them a huge target for highway destruction.

With their land value purposefully suppressed and through red lining, aggregated in monolithic neighborhoods, they had a huge bullseye when it came to land acquisition.  The "civic minded" thinking that road building was part of urban progress also gave little thought to what they considered a "poor" or "run down" neighborhood (in their eyes of course).

Was the path to road building a pure "anti-black" exercise? No of course not. I could get some grandkids of some land owners who were evicted on the west side of Chicago to make way for the Congress Expressway extension past Central Avenue. Many of them immigrants who knew very little English, were easy targets for politically driven highway construction strong men.

But I have seen the pendulum swing both ways too.  When I-90 was being rebuilt between Mercer Island and downtown Seattle, the locals in Rainier Beach (predominately black) made it clear they did not want an exit ramp, even though WDOT did.  They went to the hearings and said they didn't want the exit traffic the highway would bring to shortcut into downtown Seattle.  So after much angst, WDOT removed the exit ramps from the plans. After several lawsuits by environmentalists stalled the project for almost 25 years, WDOT finally got it all settled and started construction.

So what happened next?  The new community leaders in Rainier Beach filed a federal lawsuit to block construction because WDOT removed the ramps as a racist exercise and was denying the community of the economic benefits of having easy access to the rebuilt freeway.  While the injunction held for a brief time, WDOT brought out all the notes from the hearings outlining how they wanted the ramps, but were denied by the local leaders. That it was too late to re-add them now and any effort to try would simply delay the project even longer.

The community lost in court and the road is done.  But its a good example of that sometimes, road building isn't about race at all.

thelakelander

#5
April 04, 2017, 06:56:22 AM Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 06:59:36 AM by thelakelander
The concept of road building has never been all about race. Neither has the concept of urban renewal.  These are just examples of two public policy driven tools during the mid-20th century that ended up being used by many cities to target "certain areas" for "redevelopment".  It certainly wasn't just a black thing, although many cities targeted their black neighborhoods for redevelopment via highway construction and urban renewal. For example, in Detroit, Chinatown was taken out for the Lodge Freeway.


Detroit's Chinatown

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

Adam White

#6
April 04, 2017, 07:05:34 AM
It's always the same - those with money have the ear of the people making the decisions.
"If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly."

thelakelander

#7
April 04, 2017, 07:13:36 AM
^Pretty much....
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

vicupstate

#8
April 04, 2017, 10:02:24 AM
Quote from: Adam White on April 04, 2017, 07:05:34 AM
It's always the same - those with money have the ear of the people making the decisions.

Yep. Only with Citizens United, it will put that M.O. on steroids. 
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

thelakelander

#10
April 04, 2017, 10:52:32 AM Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 10:54:42 AM by thelakelander
I believe that's it.  I think there's another place between 8th and MLK too.  I've seen the lines in the past and meant to stop by and see for myself.  However, I'm not sure they're open anymore. We have places like this all over the Central Florida hood I grew up in.  Some of the best BBQ and Caribbean food that I've ever had has come from places like this.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

#11
April 04, 2017, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: I-10east on April 03, 2017, 09:23:15 PM
so I rode through Blue St and 5th area, and holy crap it's looks like a war zone! Busted out windows, boarded up places etc. I'm VERY familiar with that area (stayed in Durkeeville for awhile as a kid) and it never was Avondale by no means, but I never saw it looking that bad; shades of Detroit.

I believe EWC may have acquired some of the properties in the area for future growth.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

Gambit80

#12
April 04, 2017, 11:20:43 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 04, 2017, 10:52:32 AM
I believe that's it.  I think there's another place between 8th and MLK too.  I've seen the lines in the past and meant to stop by and see for myself.  However, I'm not sure they're open anymore. We have places like this all over the Central Florida hood I grew up in.  Some of the best BBQ and Caribbean food that I've ever had has come from places like this.

I love places like this and try to seek them out. Will have to check them out soon. Thanks!
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