Lofts at Monroe

[howfam]

This, along with other developments in this area will be highly visible from I-95. Nice, but it needs to be much taller. I wish Jacksonville would lift these ridiculous height restrictions in downtown, of all places. High rises should be the order -of- the- day in downtown. It would help to  build our image as a big city. We are the largest city in Florida (land area and population), and 12th largest in the country, but you wouldn't know it by looking at downtown.

[thelakelander]

I don't believe there are height restrictions downtown.  We just don't have a market that can support significant highrise construction. 

Us being 12th largest in the US is also kind of deceiving since the city is consolidated with the county.  In reality, we're around 40th.

[howfam]

Incorrect. Recent info. on the subject shows Jax as 12th in the U.S. in city population, which is how city's are ranked, not metro area that covers everything within a hundred miles or so, which is always deceiving. Our city population ranks us ahead of Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte,  etc., making Jax the largest city in the southeastern U.S.; that's real figures, not Metro area figures which have Miami and Atlanta bragging about 5 -Plus million people, when neither has an actual city population over a half million. It's time Jax wakes up and stop denying that it's already a big city and go ahead and build a downtown commensurate with that status.

[ProjectMaximus]

Lake's point is that the city limits are consolidated with the county, which is why our city population is so high. Our city is the largest by area in the continental US at 875 sq miles. Miami's is only 56. Miami's city population would dwarf Jacksonville's if you measured a corresponding area.

[Gunnar]

I understand the mentality of wanting market and luxury apartments too but the way I see it, this is the smartest possible move for Jax. Cities all around the country are struggling to find places for affordable housing in their downtowns and we are baking it right in with our redevelopment. One positive of being so behind the curve is that we can learn from others' mistakes. Brooklyn will be all luxury and market rate most-likely so LaVilla having a few low to middle income residences is a great thing. I do hope that the next one that is proposed (and there should be more) will be market rate so you get that mix but every other project going up around downtown is market rate or luxury already.
For Example:
Broad Stone River house
200 Riverside
The Barnett and Trio
Ventures' SouthBank Development
Future Shipyards development
The District
Southern Baptist apartments
Allowing LaVilla to be an affordable neighborhood of downtown with quick access to the new JRTC transit hub is a smart move. One that could theoretically increase ridership on our transit system too. At the end of the day, anything is better than vacant lots and stuff like this will go a long way in changing the perception of the area.

On the plus side, this will give people working in the city (once it takes off) a place to live nearby. Decreased commuting cost and time will definitely be a plus and this would also increase the number of people shopping in the area.

I have several co-workers who used to work in London before and the time and money it took them to get to work (and they do have a good public transport system) was quite a thing. Prices for living in the city were prohibitive so they had to live quite a bit away from downtown.

[acme54321]

Incorrect. Recent info. on the subject shows Jax as 12th in the U.S. in city population, which is how city's are ranked, not metro area that covers everything within a hundred miles or so, which is always deceiving. Our city population ranks us ahead of Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte,  etc., making Jax the largest city in the southeastern U.S.; that's real figures, not Metro area figures which have Miami and Atlanta bragging about 5 -Plus million people, when neither has an actual city population over a half million. It's time Jax wakes up and stop denying that it's already a big city and go ahead and build a downtown commensurate with that status.

Sure, statistically you're correct.  Though the real estate market and investors are all looking at metro areas.  I'm not saying Jax isn't a big city but to try to say it's "bigger" than Atlanta or Miami is foolish.

[thelakelander]

It's a regional second tier type city on every level except for the amount of land area. So it shouldn't be surprising that 47 square mile San Francisco has a ton of more skyscrapers despite technically being smaller than 747 square mile Jax in city population. With that said, it doesn't mean that Jax can't be a great regional second tier type city.  Two good examples out there are Portland and Salt Lake City.

[JPalmer]

Incorrect. Recent info. on the subject shows Jax as 12th in the U.S. in city population, which is how city's are ranked, not metro area that covers everything within a hundred miles or so, which is always deceiving. Our city population ranks us ahead of Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte,  etc., making Jax the largest city in the southeastern U.S.; that's real figures, not Metro area figures which have Miami and Atlanta bragging about 5 -Plus million people, when neither has an actual city population over a half million. It's time Jax wakes up and stop denying that it's already a big city and go ahead and build a downtown commensurate with that status.

So are all of those people who live in Miami and Atlanta really just alternative facts?

[howfam]

Lake's point is that the city limits are consolidated with the county, which is why our city population is so high. Our city is the largest by area in the continental US at 875 sq miles. Miami's is only 56. Miami's city population would dwarf Jacksonville's if you measured a corresponding area.

That's If we measured corresponding area. But we can't, because Miami doesn't have 875 sq. miles of area to compare to Jax within its city limits thereby disqualifying anything counted outside its legal boundaries as city population. Only its metro area eclipses Jax's. Same for Atlanta, Charlotte, San Fran. etc. Jax is the largest city in the southeastern U.S., a sleeping (well awakening) giant. And when it finally wakes up and realizes its own potential, the world will take notice.

[Tacachale]

Lake's point is that the city limits are consolidated with the county, which is why our city population is so high. Our city is the largest by area in the continental US at 875 sq miles. Miami's is only 56. Miami's city population would dwarf Jacksonville's if you measured a corresponding area.

That's If we measured corresponding area. But we can't, because Miami doesn't have 875 sq. miles of area to compare to Jax within its city limits thereby disqualifying anything counted outside its legal boundaries as city population. Only its metro area eclipses Jax's. Same for Atlanta, Charlotte, San Fran. etc. Jax is the largest city in the southeastern U.S., a sleeping (well awakening) giant. And when it finally wakes up and realizes its own potential, the world will take notice.

The point is there are far more people in the surrounding area of Miami and Atlanta than there are in Jacksonville, and that supports things like you are mentioning. Jacksonville doesn't have the same demand for skyscrapers that those cities do.

[Jim]

Lake's point is that the city limits are consolidated with the county, which is why our city population is so high. Our city is the largest by area in the continental US at 875 sq miles. Miami's is only 56. Miami's city population would dwarf Jacksonville's if you measured a corresponding area.

That's If we measured corresponding area. But we can't, because Miami doesn't have 875 sq. miles of area to compare to Jax within its city limits thereby disqualifying anything counted outside its legal boundaries as city population. Only its metro area eclipses Jax's. Same for Atlanta, Charlotte, San Fran. etc. Jax is the largest city in the southeastern U.S., a sleeping (well awakening) giant. And when it finally wakes up and realizes its own potential, the world will take notice.

Use population density then.  I don't think you're going to like the results.

[Captain Zissou]

Lake's point is that the city limits are consolidated with the county, which is why our city population is so high. Our city is the largest by area in the continental US at 875 sq miles. Miami's is only 56. Miami's city population would dwarf Jacksonville's if you measured a corresponding area.

That's If we measured corresponding area. But we can't, because Miami doesn't have 875 sq. miles of area to compare to Jax within its city limits thereby disqualifying anything counted outside its legal boundaries as city population. Only its metro area eclipses Jax's. Same for Atlanta, Charlotte, San Fran. etc. Jax is the largest city in the southeastern U.S., a sleeping (well awakening) giant. And when it finally wakes up and realizes its own potential, the world will take notice.

I've tried to craft a number of responses to this ranging from serious to sarcastic, but I'm at a loss.  How are you not getting this?  Maybe if you thought of the "metro area" as the MARKET AREA it might make sense to you.  Miami has more buildings, restaurants, businesses, hotels, towers, transit, stores, trash cans, tennis shoes.............etc because their market is 4 times larger than ours.  There are 4 times more people in the nearby area to patronize a bar, restaurant, hotel, or other business.  They also draw in more tourists.  The city limits have far less impact than the quantity of people in close proximity to the city.  Miami and Atlanta have 4 times more people who regularly do business in the city center and support projects around there.

[howfam]

Lake's point is that the city limits are consolidated with the county, which is why our city population is so high. Our city is the largest by area in the continental US at 875 sq miles. Miami's is only 56. Miami's city population would dwarf Jacksonville's if you measured a corresponding area.

That's If we measured corresponding area. But we can't, because Miami doesn't have 875 sq. miles of area to compare to Jax within its city limits thereby disqualifying anything counted outside its legal boundaries as city population. Only its metro area eclipses Jax's. Same for Atlanta, Charlotte, San Fran. etc. Jax is the largest city in the southeastern U.S., a sleeping (well awakening) giant. And when it finally wakes up and realizes its own potential, the world will take notice.

I've tried to craft a number of responses to this ranging from serious to sarcastic, but I'm at a loss.  How are you not getting this?  Maybe if you thought of the "metro area" as the MARKET AREA it might make sense to you.  Miami has more buildings, restaurants, businesses, hotels, towers, transit, stores, trash cans, tennis shoes.............etc because their market is 4 times larger than ours.  There are 4 times more people in the nearby area to patronize a bar, restaurant, hotel, or other business.  They also draw in more tourists.  The city limits have far less impact than the quantity of people in close proximity to the city.  Miami and Atlanta have 4 times more people who regularly do business in the city center and support projects around there.

I'm sorry, but there's no proof that number of tall buildings in any city's downtown is determined by its population. Miami had tall buildings downtown before it had the large metro population, as did Miami Beach (a separate city by the way). What they had is activity levels and attractions that turned attention to their area and drew people from outside the metro area into their cities. Miami would be nowhere if not for the millions of non-resident tourists that flock to the area yearly. So activities, setting, and general appeal a city has draws people ,albeit intermittently, to an area thereby necessitating buildings such as high-rise hotels to accommodate them. Orlando had Disney before it had its current metro population because that, along with the other activities , theme parks etc. put the area on the map; hence the old adage : build it and they will come. Jax needs to pick up the pace when it comes to big events and permanent tourist attractions, and then it will be something to marvel at like other cities its size and smaller.

[Steve]

Orlando had Disney before it had its current metro population because that, along with the other activities , theme parks etc. put the area on the map; hence the old adage : build it and they will come.

Orlando didn't pick Disney - Disney found an area with good weather and cheap land. Not to mention Disney is not exactly in Orlando - it's mostly in Osceola County (southwest of Orlando), sort of like saying St Augustine is in Jacksonville.

In addition, I'm not sure that recruiting a family to go to Disney is the same as leasing Office Space that would likely have to be leased for $25+ SqFt plus to make ends meet.

[thelakelander]

Orlando is a bad example. It doesn't have much of a skyline for a metropolitan area its size. Also, I'd argue much of Miami's real money came from it being an international hub for the drug trade. Nevertheless, howfam is correct:

I'm sorry, but there's no proof that number of tall buildings in any city's downtown is determined by its population.

Jax is living proof. Just because you have +800k people spread out across your city limits doesn't mean you can support a San Francisco or Miami-sized skyline.