A Cheap Solution To Jax's Convention Center Problem?

[Kerry]

Have you seen the other sides of the Washington St Convention Center?  They aren't exactly beaming with walkable urbanism.  Two siders are blank walls that don't even have sidewalks.  It is crazy expensive to make more than one side 'nice'.  Also, do you envision a 10 bay loading dock right against the new park and marina?  You will also lose a significant portion of the available land to back of house operations and there is no room for expansion if Jax ever decides to go that route.

I appreciate what you want to accomplish but the price tag on that coupled with no future expansion is a non-starter for me.  Plus, that land has way higher and better uses than an exhibition space.  Finally, where would everyone park?  I hate parking as much as the next person but the reality is people in metro Jax have no other way to get there.  They have to park somewhere.

[thelakelander]

Yes. The back side is pretty nice.  It's a park/plaza built over the interstate.



It's where most of us escaped when we wanted to get some sun or take a brief break from a convention I attended in 2015.  It also made for a pretty nice shortcut back to my hotel.

[Kerry]

Not to nitpick - but those pictures are not adjacent to the convention center, but in fairness, they are pretty close by.  Anyone who wants to see what the surrounding streets at Washington State Convention Center looks like can go to Google Earth and see it.  One of the criteria under discussion for their current expansion plans is how they fix the existing walkable urbanism problems.

[Kerry]

Maybe we should go about this in a more constructive way since I think everyone sort of wants the same thing.  What should a new exhibition center entail?

Some things to consider:
Size of unobstructed floor space
Number of meeting rooms
Kitchen facilities
Loading bays
Parking
Hotel stock/CC hotel
Type of events
Expansion capabilities

Any other criteria anyone can think of?

The current facility has 78,000 sq.feet of mostly column free exhibition space, 22 meeting rooms, 6 loading bays, and parking for 600 on pavement and another 300 on grass.  Is the desire to replicate the size, reduce it, or make it bigger?

[thelakelander]

We're so far past that. We've been studying it for at least 15 years now. There's quite a few studies with the info you mention that are posted here. When I get a chance, I'll dig up some old stories and threads on the subject.

[FlaBoy]

I think the convention center issue has been studied almost every 10 years in Jax. Enough with the studies and consultants. I think the only two really feasible options are the old Courthouse/City Hall properties or as part of the Shipyards/Metro Park redevelopment if a hotel the quality Khan is talking about is built.

I prefer the Courthouse site if the site is mixed use because I honestly don't see any real expansions in the next 30-40 years if done right but also, I hate to have waterfront property that is just an exhibition hall without a residential/retail/hotel component in some way utilizing that primetime waterfront location on Bay St.

[thelakelander]

^It can have space for ground level retail and restaurants.  In fact, that's something that should be included at any site. There's a lot of great examples out there.

[Kerry]

Since I seemed to have missed the 10 to 15 years of studies, anyone know off hand what the conclusions were on size?

[thelakelander]

Here's two old links:

The Civic Council recommended demolishing the City Hall Annex building and adding a mixed-use 100,000 square foot hall behind the Hyatt in 2011. If this was done, you'd have ground level street retail on Bay and the exhibition hall would be attached to the second floor ballroom meeting spaces of the Hyatt. The exhibition hall would also be about +22 SF larger than the existing PO's hall:



http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-feb-the-jacksonville-civic-councils-plans-for-downtown



This 2009 article has several links to other articles with specific details from previous studies:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jan-peytons-struggles-the-convention-center

[FlaBoy]

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/073005/bus_19375381.shtml#.WML6Pm8rJQI

Link to another study done in 2006.

[Kerry]

Okay - after reading through those I can't believe anyone is seriously in favor of the Bay St site.  Tear down the Hermiker Block for a parking garage?  I don't even know where to begin with that.  There isn't a CC consultant alive that would recommend that proposal today.  Those that would have all been fired.

[Tacachale]

^It's easily the best location. It could be done without demolishing the Hermiker building.

[thelakelander]

^Pretty much. You can get an exhibition hall built without tearing down the Hermiker building for parking. You just have to see the forest through the trees by focusing on resolving the actual problem.

[thelakelander]

Okay - after reading through those I can't believe anyone is seriously in favor of the Bay St site.  Tear down the Hermiker Block for a parking garage?  I don't even know where to begin with that.  There isn't a CC consultant alive that would recommend that proposal today.  Those that would have all been fired.

We don't need to tear the Hermiker down. That aside, let's focus on the exhibition hall.  What negatives do you see in placing that plan on the City Hall Annex or larger courthouse site? That box, combined with the Hyatt's existing amount of meeting space fulfills the requirements identified for a convention center in the local market.  COJ also owns the land. Any amount of extra foot traffic on Bay and the riverwalk will benefit the Elbow and Landing.

If it were up to me, I'd place the exhibition hall on the courthouse site (with street level retail facing Bay) and I'd RFP the City Hall Annex building for a mixed use retrofit (market rate apartments and ground floor retail).

[FlaBoy]

Okay - after reading through those I can't believe anyone is seriously in favor of the Bay St site.  Tear down the Hermiker Block for a parking garage?  I don't even know where to begin with that.  There isn't a CC consultant alive that would recommend that proposal today.  Those that would have all been fired.

We don't need to tear the Hermiker down. That aside, let's focus on the exhibition hall.  What negatives do you see in placing that plan on the City Hall Annex or larger courthouse site? That box, combined with the Hyatt's existing amount of meeting space fulfills the requirements identified for a convention center in the local market.  COJ also owns the land. Any amount of extra foot traffic on Bay and the riverwalk will benefit the Elbow and Landing.

If it were up to me, I'd place the exhibition hall on the courthouse site (with street level retail facing Bay) and I'd RFP the City Hall Annex building for a mixed use retrofit (market rate apartments and ground floor retail).

I also think, if things go well, you do have the opportunity to, in 15-20 years, expand to the Sheriff's Office/Jail site.