City will seek Proposals for Shipyards + Met Park Combined Development

[Adam White]

Has anyone even seen the other 2 proposals? I'd like to at least see them although we all know they're giving Khan the bid.

Just once I wish the City would tell him No.  He has zero development experience and the City is just going to hand him the largest development opportunity in the history of Jax and millions of dollars to go with it.  I guess owning a sports team is the new "I slept at a Holiday Inn Express".

The guy is a multi-billionaire self-made man. What the hell do you know about what is going on all around the world with his billions of dollars? I am sure he is just an idiot who can't do anything right. He never hires good people either.  Relax man. How many people or companies are in Jacksonville worth billions of dollars that have the capabilities Khan has? You can hit him for being ALL ABOUT the money and not about the city's best interest but you are a fool to go after the man due to some sort of weird perceived incompetence.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with Kerry - but just because you have a lot of money, doesn't mean you'll be good at everything you decide to try, especially if you have no experience. Certain people come to mind...

[Tacachale]

Has anyone even seen the other 2 proposals? I'd like to at least see them although we all know they're giving Khan the bid.

Just once I wish the City would tell him No.  He has zero development experience and the City is just going to hand him the largest development opportunity in the history of Jax and millions of dollars to go with it.  I guess owning a sports team is the new "I slept at a Holiday Inn Express".

The guy is a multi-billionaire self-made man. What the hell do you know about what is going on all around the world with his billions of dollars? I am sure he is just an idiot who can't do anything right. He never hires good people either.  Relax man. How many people or companies are in Jacksonville worth billions of dollars that have the capabilities Khan has? You can hit him for being ALL ABOUT the money and not about the city's best interest but you are a fool to go after the man due to some sort of weird perceived incompetence.

Maybe we should just force Khan to build 30 hotels and Kerry will get behind him.

[Adam White]

Has anyone even seen the other 2 proposals? I'd like to at least see them although we all know they're giving Khan the bid.

Just once I wish the City would tell him No.  He has zero development experience and the City is just going to hand him the largest development opportunity in the history of Jax and millions of dollars to go with it.  I guess owning a sports team is the new "I slept at a Holiday Inn Express".

The guy is a multi-billionaire self-made man. What the hell do you know about what is going on all around the world with his billions of dollars? I am sure he is just an idiot who can't do anything right. He never hires good people either.  Relax man. How many people or companies are in Jacksonville worth billions of dollars that have the capabilities Khan has? You can hit him for being ALL ABOUT the money and not about the city's best interest but you are a fool to go after the man due to some sort of weird perceived incompetence.

Maybe we should just force Khan to build 30 hotels and Kerry will get behind him.

I made a similar joke and then decided to delete my post!

[thelakelander]

Funny thing is the hotel is probably the most realistic part of the proposal.

[RattlerGator]

[1]

Is this a Southside Boulevard-style strip mall I'm looking at?

(((sigh))) Renderings, people, and preliminary renderings at that.

But it's probably too much to ask slaves of northeastern urban density desires to . . . blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

We have a long stretch of riverfront with beautiful vistas open for multiple uses and . . . pretty low density is a real concern?

Hell no.

[2]

Kerry, Shad *does* have development experience. Elite-level experience in the form of Mark Lamping who was president of the St. Louis Cardinals from September 1, 1994 until March 31, 2008 and intimately involved in the conceptualization and planning for the Ballpark Village development credited with reinvigorating a section of downtown St. Louis. We can probably look forward to something like this here in Big Duval, but tailored to Northeast Florida:

http://www.mlb.com/stl/ballpark/ballpark_village/phase1/

[3]

"Funny thing is the hotel is probably the most realistic part of the proposal." Perhaps if some of y'all were the billionaire developer. But you aren't. So, it's probably time to start archiving some of these hot takes.

* * *

These are exciting times. #InShadWeTrust

[Adam White]

[1]

Is this a Southside Boulevard-style strip mall I'm looking at?

(((sigh))) Renderings, people, and preliminary renderings at that.

But it's probably too much to ask slaves of northeastern urban density desires to . . . blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

We have a long stretch of riverfront with beautiful vistas open for multiple uses and . . . pretty low density is a real concern?

Hell no.

[2]

Kerry, Shad *does* have development experience. Elite-level experience in the form of Mark Lamping who was president of the St. Louis Cardinals from September 1, 1994 until March 31, 2008 and intimately involved in the conceptualization and planning for the Ballpark Village development credited with reinvigorating a section of downtown St. Louis. We can probably look forward to something like this here in Big Duval, but tailored to Northeast Florida:

http://www.mlb.com/stl/ballpark/ballpark_village/phase1/

[3]

"Funny thing is the hotel is probably the most realistic part of the proposal." Perhaps if some of y'all were the billionaire developer. But you aren't. So, it's probably time to start archiving some of these hot takes.

* * *

These are exciting times. #InShadWeTrust

[4] RattleGator earned his billions in property development, as evidenced by his insistence that no one who isn't a billionaire developer can understand, or have an opinion about, this stuff.

[Steve]

I'll hold my desire until I see all three of the proposals. With that said, Rattler brings up a good point about Lamping. The guy has a ton of experience in this. There's a reason Khan hired him. That side of the org has been stellar since Khan took over.

The on-field product on the other hand......

But, I've seen very little of the other proposals.

[Tacachale]

[1]

Is this a Southside Boulevard-style strip mall I'm looking at?

(((sigh))) Renderings, people, and preliminary renderings at that.

But it's probably too much to ask slaves of northeastern urban density desires to . . . blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

We have a long stretch of riverfront with beautiful vistas open for multiple uses and . . . pretty low density is a real concern?

Hell no.

[2]

Kerry, Shad *does* have development experience. Elite-level experience in the form of Mark Lamping who was president of the St. Louis Cardinals from September 1, 1994 until March 31, 2008 and intimately involved in the conceptualization and planning for the Ballpark Village development credited with reinvigorating a section of downtown St. Louis. We can probably look forward to something like this here in Big Duval, but tailored to Northeast Florida:

http://www.mlb.com/stl/ballpark/ballpark_village/phase1/

[3]

"Funny thing is the hotel is probably the most realistic part of the proposal." Perhaps if some of y'all were the billionaire developer. But you aren't. So, it's probably time to start archiving some of these hot takes.

* * *

These are exciting times. #InShadWeTrust

[4] RattleGator earned his billions in property development, as evidenced by his insistence that no one who isn't a billionaire developer can understand, or have an opinion about, this stuff.

Ha!

Low density is a concern. Columbus's Arena District, for instance, didn't become what it is with a bunch of one-story outdoor mall-style buildings. Compare and contrast.



vs.



On the other hand, it's probably wise to shoot for achievable improvements rather than razzle dazzle that proves unrealistic. Most of the current proposal looks doable.

[vicupstate]

I don't think Kerry ever recommended providing incentives to open Hotels in DT, only that the lack of them was indicative of a weak DT economy, which it certainly is. Hotels have kickstarted urban renaissance in many cities and the continual addition of new beds is also a metric of vitality. Hotels have opened in urban areas in spades throughout the country and the dearth of such here is telling.

As far as Khan, I think there would be more interest in the RFP if he was not involved. Why put in the time and money into a bid if it is a forgone conclusion that he will get the nod.

That said, if his proposal is high caliber, and doesn't 'socialize the risk, privatize the profit' then I can embrace it. I DO AGREE with Adam White's comment that being smart in some things does not make that person an expert in other things.     

Since the proposals have been submitted, shouldn't there be details included on what the city will be asked to do, as part of the RPF?   

   

[jaxjags]

[1]

Is this a Southside Boulevard-style strip mall I'm looking at?

(((sigh))) Renderings, people, and preliminary renderings at that.

But it's probably too much to ask slaves of northeastern urban density desires to . . . blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

We have a long stretch of riverfront with beautiful vistas open for multiple uses and . . . pretty low density is a real concern?

Hell no.

[2]

Kerry, Shad *does* have development experience. Elite-level experience in the form of Mark Lamping who was president of the St. Louis Cardinals from September 1, 1994 until March 31, 2008 and intimately involved in the conceptualization and planning for the Ballpark Village development credited with reinvigorating a section of downtown St. Louis. We can probably look forward to something like this here in Big Duval, but tailored to Northeast Florida:

http://www.mlb.com/stl/ballpark/ballpark_village/phase1/

[3]

"Funny thing is the hotel is probably the most realistic part of the proposal." Perhaps if some of y'all were the billionaire developer. But you aren't. So, it's probably time to start archiving some of these hot takes.

* * *

These are exciting times. #InShadWeTrust

[4] RattleGator earned his billions in property development, as evidenced by his insistence that no one who isn't a billionaire developer can understand, or have an opinion about, this stuff.

Ha!

Low density is a concern. Columbus's Arena District, for instance, didn't become what it is with a bunch of one-story outdoor mall-style buildings. Compare and contrast.



vs.



On the other hand, it's probably wise to shoot for achievable improvements rather than razzle dazzle that proves unrealistic. Most of the current proposal looks doable.

Unfortunately what is shown in the Arena District is housing. As this is the area of the shipyards with the most contamination, housing will be difficult without major remediation. Thus low density entertainment. The far west part of plan does show housing. I would hope it would be similar to the arena district and be mid rise. It is also closest to DT employment area.

[Tacachale]

I don't think Kerry ever recommended providing incentives to open Hotels in DT, only that the lack of them was indicative of a weak DT economy, which it certainly is. Hotels have kickstarted urban renaissance in many cities and the continual addition of new beds is also a metric of vitality. Hotels have opened in urban areas in spades throughout the country and the dearth of such here is telling.

Reading the last few comments - maybe Jax just lacks a population who gives a crap about anything.  Self-defeat works every time.

I just think the "build it and they will come" mentality never works. Hotels (and total number of hotel rooms) should correlate to the health of downtown (and the wider city). Develop downtown and hotels will be built. As it is, there is close to nothing downtown. If Jax is experiencing a shortage of available hotel rooms downtown, then I would agree we need more. If not, I would say we need to do more to make downtown attractive to visitors.

They are already coming though.  They are just 'coming' someplace else.  Sitting around and waiting for something to happen isn't the answer.   If doing nothing worked downtown Jax would be thriving.  Attractions aren't going to locate downtown if there aren't people there.  People WILL go where the hotels are because...well...that is where the bed is.  No one is pulling off on Pecan Park road and sleeping in their car.  They are going to where the hotel is.

The City should actively be pursuing hotel development downtown, even at the expense of other parts of town.  Attract the people and services will sprout up to serve and entertain them.  That is how the economy works - even in suburbia.

As far as Khan, I think there would be more interest in the RFP if he was not involved. Why put in the time and money into a bid if it is a forgone conclusion that he will get the nod.

That said, if his proposal is high caliber, and doesn't 'socialize the risk, privatize the profit' then I can embrace it. I DO AGREE with Adam White's comment that being smart in some things does not make that person an expert in other things.     

Since the proposals have been submitted, shouldn't there be details included on what the city will be asked to do, as part of the RPF?   

I imagine an incentives package will be part of any deal that would be accepted here. But we can expect that there will be less "socialize the risk, privatize the profit" than last time this deal went to bid, as Sam Mousa was the one who shot down the last proposal, to his credit.

[FlaBoy]

Funny thing is the hotel is probably the most realistic part of the proposal.

I just want them to put in the hotel and move the park. I actually think a nice waterfront park with the USS Adams closer to the core could help the Berkman II and other development get off the ground. It will all be market forces from here. I do think it would be nice for the city to figure out a long term solution for the jail soon to also incentivize development in the Shipyards.

[downtownbrown]

Funny thing is the hotel is probably the most realistic part of the proposal.

I just want them to put in the hotel and move the park. I actually think a nice waterfront park with the USS Adams closer to the core could help the Berkman II and other development get off the ground. It will all be market forces from here. I do think it would be nice for the city to figure out a long term solution for the jail soon to also incentivize development in the Shipyards.

^what he said.  And most likely as well. Except for the jail, which is a monstrosity that will be expensive to move.

[KenFSU]

I imagine an incentives package will be part of any deal that would be accepted here. But we can expect that there will be less "socialize the risk, privatize the profit" than last time this deal went to bid, as Sam Mousa was the one who shot down the last proposal, to his credit.

For sure, Khan's definitely pitching the financing similarly to the last few projects, with both private and public sector investment:

Khan, asked to discuss the financial details of the proposal, said the Jaguars' goal is a proposal that works "for everybody – something that is really, really good."

"We want the best experience, and the price tag will follow," Khan said. "Once we get into that, we'll be able to refine that. ... Just like, if you go back over the last three years, when people come to this venue now, they can't believe it's the same place. Whether it's the end zones or the boards or right here at the club level, whatever.

"What we've done is imagined the best experience then, if it's relevant, get the city to pitch in and we write a check. That's how things have happened."

[Kerry]

Funny thing is the hotel is probably the most realistic part of the proposal.

I just want them to put in the hotel and move the park. I actually think a nice waterfront park with the USS Adams closer to the core could help the Berkman II and other development get off the ground. It will all be market forces from here. I do think it would be nice for the city to figure out a long term solution for the jail soon to also incentivize development in the Shipyards.

The City doesn't need Khan to do that.  If that is the whole plan why involve a middle man?