Dear White People and Trump is Evil

[BridgeTroll]

Well if those jobs "aint coming back" then no wonder the democrats have abandoned the unions... well except for the public sector and teachers... where there will always be job growth...lol

I wouldn't say the Democrats have abandoned the unions. I'd say unions are declining along with the workforce they used to represent. I'd say the Democrats' bigger problem by far is with white working class folks who *aren't* in Unions. And of course the Republicans are pretty staunchly anti-union and are widely perceived as favoring the wealthy. That includes POTUS, though he's better at talking to the working class about those types of things than most Republicans.

Hmm... those rust belt states that Hillary ignored/lost are very union.  The dems certainly pay lip service to them but even those unsophistacated flyover folks know when they are being used and ignored... and it cost the democrats the presidency the house and the senate... oh and the governers.  Pelosi looked like she ate a turd last night...lol

I agree with this. But Trump isn't exactly a traditional Republican. Romney, McCain, and even GW Bush lost most of Rust Belt states that Trump picked up, despite the fact Republicans had increasing success in Congress and the governorships. However, my Democratic friends would point out that on the congressional level, gerrymandering had as much to due with Republicans taking control as political positions.

Yeah... he certainly is not a traditional republican.  Wayyy to untraditional for me... BUT... I think his success where the others failed was the poor candidate he was running against... and giving voice to those forgotten flyovers...  Gerrymandering?? really??  May as well add in Putin then...

[BridgeTroll]

Hmm... those rust belt states that Hillary ignored/lost are very union.  The dems certainly pay lip service to them but even those unsophistacated flyover folks know when they are being used and ignored...

Wow. Now it's like you're practically quoting that editorial.

Which one?  It is a fairly common sentiment...

The one I posted from the Socialist Party.

Good god I'm infected...   I even quoted the last line in the article...  "Socialism is the only solution to working class problems."

[Adam White]

Hmm... those rust belt states that Hillary ignored/lost are very union.  The dems certainly pay lip service to them but even those unsophistacated flyover folks know when they are being used and ignored...

Wow. Now it's like you're practically quoting that editorial.

Which one?  It is a fairly common sentiment...

The one I posted from the Socialist Party.

Good god I'm infected...   I even quoted the last line in the article...  "Socialism is the only solution to working class problems."

One of us! One of us!

[Tacachale]

Well if those jobs "aint coming back" then no wonder the democrats have abandoned the unions... well except for the public sector and teachers... where there will always be job growth...lol

I wouldn't say the Democrats have abandoned the unions. I'd say unions are declining along with the workforce they used to represent. I'd say the Democrats' bigger problem by far is with white working class folks who *aren't* in Unions. And of course the Republicans are pretty staunchly anti-union and are widely perceived as favoring the wealthy. That includes POTUS, though he's better at talking to the working class about those types of things than most Republicans.

Hmm... those rust belt states that Hillary ignored/lost are very union.  The dems certainly pay lip service to them but even those unsophistacated flyover folks know when they are being used and ignored... and it cost the democrats the presidency the house and the senate... oh and the governers.  Pelosi looked like she ate a turd last night...lol

I agree with this. But Trump isn't exactly a traditional Republican. Romney, McCain, and even GW Bush lost most of Rust Belt states that Trump picked up, despite the fact Republicans had increasing success in Congress and the governorships. However, my Democratic friends would point out that on the congressional level, gerrymandering had as much to due with Republicans taking control as political positions.

Yeah... he certainly is not a traditional republican.  Wayyy to untraditional for me... BUT... I think his success where the others failed was the poor candidate he was running against... and giving voice to those forgotten flyovers...  Gerrymandering?? really??  May as well add in Putin then...

Yes, gerrymandering is how Republicans are able to control several states (like Florida) on the congressional level despite the votes being about even. It's also true in the state legislatures. In Michigan last year, Democratic candidates actually got more votes but won fewer seats because of the ways Democratic voters have been "packed" into certain districts. Of course Democrats also use gerrymandering to their advantage in some states, but they aren't nearly as good at it currently.

You are absolutely right that Clinton's weaknesses and Trump's ability to speak to "flyover America" in a way that other politicians don't are the reasons he won. Virtually any other serious Democrat - Obama, Uncle Joe, even John Kerry - would have thwomped Trump. On the other hand many of the other Republican contenders could probably have beaten Clinton, even without winning as much of the Rust Belt as Trump.

[BridgeTroll]

Well if those jobs "aint coming back" then no wonder the democrats have abandoned the unions... well except for the public sector and teachers... where there will always be job growth...lol

I wouldn't say the Democrats have abandoned the unions. I'd say unions are declining along with the workforce they used to represent. I'd say the Democrats' bigger problem by far is with white working class folks who *aren't* in Unions. And of course the Republicans are pretty staunchly anti-union and are widely perceived as favoring the wealthy. That includes POTUS, though he's better at talking to the working class about those types of things than most Republicans.

Hmm... those rust belt states that Hillary ignored/lost are very union.  The dems certainly pay lip service to them but even those unsophistacated flyover folks know when they are being used and ignored... and it cost the democrats the presidency the house and the senate... oh and the governers.  Pelosi looked like she ate a turd last night...lol

I agree with this. But Trump isn't exactly a traditional Republican. Romney, McCain, and even GW Bush lost most of Rust Belt states that Trump picked up, despite the fact Republicans had increasing success in Congress and the governorships. However, my Democratic friends would point out that on the congressional level, gerrymandering had as much to due with Republicans taking control as political positions.

Yeah... he certainly is not a traditional republican.  Wayyy to untraditional for me... BUT... I think his success where the others failed was the poor candidate he was running against... and giving voice to those forgotten flyovers...  Gerrymandering?? really??  May as well add in Putin then...

Yes, gerrymandering is how Republicans are able to control several states (like Florida) on the congressional level despite the votes being about even. It's also true in the state legislatures. In Michigan last year, Democratic candidates actually got more votes but won fewer seats because of the ways Democratic voters have been "packed" into certain districts. Of course Democrats also use gerrymandering to their advantage in some states, but they aren't nearly as good at it currently.

You are absolutely right that Clinton's weaknesses and Trump's ability to speak to "flyover America" in a way that other politicians don't are the reasons he won. Virtually any other serious Democrat - Obama, Uncle Joe, even John Kerry - would have thwomped Trump. On the other hand many of the other Republican contenders could probably have beaten Clinton, even without winning as much of the Rust Belt as Trump.

Im glad you agree that gerrymandering is not ideology specific.  Apparently whoever is in power at the time does it... legally of course.  That said... the process certainly helps certain democrat gerrymandered districts as well.  There are certain areas of the country that will just never have a republican anything... Apparently even these evil geniuses can be overcome as evidenced by the infamous four state revolt...

[BridgeTroll]

Gerrymandering?? really?? 

the ignorance is alarming.  if you pay attention to politics AT ALL at times other than during the presidential cycle you would know this is so very true.   tremendous GOP resources were directed to state level elections during 2010 specifically to gerrymander

Those darn republicans...rofl...

[Tacachale]

^Dude, mellow out.

[Snufflee]

^Dude, mellow out.

He is right though, Bridge Troll is literally trolling cause his argument is not based in facts or reality.

[Adam White]

I don't wish to speak for BT, but I think the crux of his argument is that both parties do it when they get the opportunity to.

[BridgeTroll]

Those darn republicans...rofl...

you really don't know jack shit about anything political.  Some guy by the name of Karl Rove spelling out the exact strategy I describe in the WSJ:


https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703862704575099670689398044
http://www.rove.com/article/the-gop-targets-state-legislatures-16130

There was literally a GOP initiative called REDMAP (Redstricting Majority Project) built exactly for this purpose.  It has a website if you care to see:
http://www.redistrictingmajorityproject.com/

but please regale us with some alternative facts

Oh the victimization... no strategy to pack or crack districts on the dem side? awwww someone is not doing their job...

[BridgeTroll]

^Dude, mellow out.

He is right though, Bridge Troll is literally trolling cause his argument is not based in facts or reality.

Im not trolling anything... please refute or debate

[BridgeTroll]

right right BT, somehow I was thinking elected officials jobs included something about serving their constituents and working to solve the problems those people experience

All... I am saying is... If you are going to blame Trumps election on gerrymandering you may as well add Putin to the list of poor excuses for the loss. 

[BridgeTroll]

please refute

well that's been done.  still waiting on your for something besides pithy, empty, ill-informed BS.

you present nothing but the delusions in your head

meh... ok bro...

[Tacachale]

right right BT, somehow I was thinking elected officials jobs included something about serving their constituents and working to solve the problems those people experience

All... I am saying is... If you are going to blame Trumps election on gerrymandering you may as well add Putin to the list of poor excuses for the loss.

For the record, when I brought up gerrymandering, I was talking about the Republican Congressional wins that you brought up. And the state legislatures. It doesn't have anything to with Trump's election since people don't vote by district except in Maine and Nebraska.

[BridgeTroll]

I know... not sure what jlmann is all frothy about. Apparently he thinks I am unaware gerrymandering exists... gee thanks jl... thanks again for being the smartest guy in the room...lol