IF THE CITY GAVE YOU THE SKYWAY?

[Ocklawaha]

So where to now St. Peter
If it's true I'm in your hands
I may not be a Christian
But I've done all one skyway can
I understand I'm on the road
Where all that was is gone
So where to now St. Peter
Show me which road I'm on
Which road I'm on

I'm with you on that brother. It will return and sooner then most yahoos think. For location and weather, we rock!

Your Skyway Plan is very interesting. I found the move to Main quite a departure from most concepts. I wonder if a similar idea for running up past the new Courthouse, then perhaps to Davis and North to Shands would fly?

I think by everyones logic, Newnan is probbably going to be the crossing of the Streetcar route. A station there would serve Hyatt Regency and double as a transfer point.

Down Southside only two stations need be built to get it to Atlantic Blvd. in San Marco. Since this is alongside the FEC (future Commuter Rail) tracks there wouldn't be a need to continue on to Jackson Square. Just transfer to the local commute train. Since Jackson Square and Atlantic are close together, split the trains into 3 groups... Red trains stop at Jackson Square but not Atlantic, Blue trains stop at Atlantic but not Jackson Square, and Yellow Local Trains make all stops.

The thoughts expressed about running into the Stadium rather then up Randolph are also interesting, I wonder if a model would show both lines viable? We are talking in terms of 1/10 or 2/10ths of a mile, so it shouldn't be hard to build BOTH. One (Randolph) would see heavy weekday, baseball and Arena use, the other, daily park, PBS and occasional stadium megga-use.

Come on all you sidewalk critics, put your fingers on the keyboard and tell me what YOU WOULD DO. I note our super consertative critics VERY quiet. Take me to meet your sound people.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

from CIVIL

The people mover, I refuse to use the term skyway, we both know the original name, hmmmmmmmm!!!! I'm going to be nice and say my vision includes a large quantity of high explovses and a  huge block party afterwards, thats being nice.

OCKS PLANNING SESSION:

One toke over the line, sweet Jesus
One toke over the line
Sitting downtown
In a railway station
One toke over the line
Waiting for the train
That goes home, sweet Mary
Hoping that the train is on time
Sitting downtown
In a railway station
One toke over the line


Yeah, Civil, I know, I felt the same way about Horizontal Elevator we call the Skyway for many years. I'm so frustrated that it stopped us for consideration of Light Rail back when we would have been Portland or San Diego! But Jake knew all.... Sorry Boss Hogg, but you blew this one!

My feelings have changed only because we are into this giant THING for so many millions and still have made
no effort to make it viable. There are ideas out there that would do wonders just with what we have. Stuff like lease space in stations, kiosks, Lakes Museum and Mural ideas, and building direct walks and stations. Another possible use would be a few Skywalks that could connect certain stations with hotels or office towers without traffic or weather trouble. My talks with various industry experts have convinced me we don't know how to shop for a monorail. Almost everyone I have spoken to, is stunned at what we have paid per mile. It appears that it could be expanded (again I'd just move it about in the core to connect the dots) for somewhere around 15Mil a mile. Light Rail would fall in the same price area, streetcars less, commuter rail much less, and BRT about DOUBLE that number for Quickway BRT, the other form Light-Rail-Lite wouldn't be much of a step above what we have with buses and would still cost about what streetcar would. So put in prospective, this change of management (For the sake of this thread = YOU CIVIL) have an creative thinking assignment. Wanna give it a try? So far none of our Conservatives have wanted to play and put any thought into the dilemma, I really think we need to hear from both sides of the aisle. I'd love to Hear from ALL OF YOU!

OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

How about run strait from the Brooklyn platform stop underneath 95 to serve Fidelity, BCBS, Everbank, Red Cross, the artist pavilion, and the Cummer. Then on to memorial park to serve the publix, Presbyterian retiement home and all of 5 points.
To get the riverside avondale protection society to sign off we make the cars that run from central station to memorial park faux trolley or some heritage line. Is that doable Ock.

[Coolyfett]

There are ideas out there that would do wonders just with what we have. Stuff like lease space in stations, kiosks, Lakes Museum and Mural ideas, and building direct walks and stations. Another possible use would be a few Skywalks that could connect certain stations with hotels or office towers without traffic or weather trouble.

Thats a cool idea! An Omni Hotel - Central Station walkway could be built, a Rosa Park - FCCJ walkway could go over State Street & a walkway could also connect San Marco Station to Friendship Park.

[Coolyfett]

How about run strait from the Brooklyn platform stop underneath 95 to serve Fidelity, BCBS, Everbank, Red Cross, the artist pavilion, and the Cummer. Then on to memorial park to serve the publix, Presbyterian retiement home and all of 5 points.
To get the riverside avondale protection society to sign off we make the cars that run from central station to memorial park faux trolley or some heritage line. Is that doable Ock.

I was thinking that too, but once you get pass Riverside Ave & Lomax it is a lot of trees that shade those areas leading up to Memorial Park, I don't think those business want to lose that shade. Which is why I mention going up Forest then heading SW on Park Street. Do you see what I mean?

[Ocklawaha]

How about run strait from the Brooklyn platform stop underneath 95 to serve Fidelity, BCBS, Everbank, Red Cross, the artist pavilion, and the Cummer. Then on to memorial park to serve the publix, Presbyterian retiement home and all of 5 points.
To get the riverside avondale protection society to sign off we make the cars that run from central station to memorial park faux trolley or some heritage line. Is that doable Ock.

I was thinking that too, but once you get pass Riverside Ave & Lomax it is a lot of trees that shade those areas leading up to Memorial Park, I don't think those business want to lose that shade. Which is why I mention going up Forest then heading SW on Park Street. Do you see what I mean?

This is a real question. Don't know if Oak or May could be used to get close to 5-Points. Seems like one of them is mostly faceless commercial, which might work. Otherwise, Francis Lytle PS4 would make a cool multi-use station with some kind of grand walk into 5 points from the front door across the park. Anybody got images? Can we figure this out?

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

To get the riverside avondale protection society to sign off we make the cars that run from central station to memorial park faux trolley or some heritage line. Is that doable Ock.

Not really doable unless you rebuilt the whole thing as some sort of steel wheel on steel rail vehicle, and frankly the Skyway isn't really good for that.


OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

Ok I say take the thirty million and surround the SkyWay with all the streetcar track you can.

[Ocklawaha]

The latest OCKLA-DOODLE on the SKYWAY!
Northwest corner of Atlantic and the FEC railroad in San Marco.

[brainstormer]

So on firstcoastnews tonight, there was a recommendation from JSO that people park at Kings Avenue and take the Skyway to the Landing.  (This was in reference to attending the Palin event tomorrow.) 

First thought was, "what a great idea!"  Then I realized how much irony surrounds this recommendation.  The citizens of Jacksonville don't know how to use public transit and chances are, most won't use the Skyway without knowing how.  So the problem is that we can't somehow say to use something that is not ingrained in our everyday lives.  How ironical that the city begs us to use public transit as a way to help traffic and ease morning congestion for a big event.  Yet we spend the other 364 days of the year building more roads and freeways and spending nothing on mass transit infrastructure.
 
We need the Skyway to be extended (I vote for the east-stadium extension first) so that it will have more purpose, and the people of Jacksonville will slowly begin to learn the benefits of using mass transit without the hassle of traffic.  I guarantee if you offered the fans still trying to leave the stadium lots at 1:15am last night a free trip above traffic to their cars on the Southbank, 90% would've said "Yes, I'm in!"  Then when we have big events like political rallies, we can say, the fastest and easiest way will be to ride the Skyway into downtown and people will think "perfect, just like we do for the JAGS games,"  or "like we did for the Chesney concert at the Arena."  Plus the business woman who works in the Modis tower, who always uses the Skyway to get to work, will not have to worry about being late!  Perhaps with enough practice and use, we won't even have to beg on local TV.  People will already know that you'd be stupid to try to get downtown by means other than the Skyway.  Let's get this extension started already!  What are we waiting for?

[blizz01]

I love the prospect of extending the Skyway to the Stadium - more specifically the Sports Complex, but what's the frequency/capacity? For instance, if say, 2,000 people park at the King Street Garage/Station, how efficiently could they be transported to their vehicles assuming that they all queued up at the same time after an event?  Would it work?  Could it work?  Can cars be added?  It's also intriguing to think about the Skyway terminating "into" the stadium as I've read before, but is that a viable option considering that there are really no events to speak of at that location several months a year?  Would they simply not run that leg there during lean months?  Also, I wish that it Really went to the Landing & down Bay.........(sigh)

[ProjectMaximus]

I remember Ock saying they could add cars for special events as needed.

I'm guessing it's easy to not run a leg when it's not needed, but I'm sure it would be quite costly to have the line terminate into the stadium (or just run through it) since the stadium hasn't been designed for that. And building the track to do that only to not use it most of the year wouldn't be a great idea either.

I love the prospect of extending the Skyway to the Stadium - more specifically the Sports Complex, but what's the frequency/capacity? For instance, if say, 2,000 people park at the King Street Garage/Station, how efficiently could they be transported to their vehicles assuming that they all queued up at the same time after an event?  Would it work?  Could it work?  Can cars be added?  It's also intriguing to think about the Skyway terminating "into" the stadium as I've read before, but is that a viable option considering that there are really no events to speak of at that location several months a year?  Would they simply not run that leg there during lean months?  Also, I wish that it Really went to the Landing & down Bay.........(sigh)

[Ocklawaha]

Current capacity with our equipment (remember we own the rights to the center cars but have never ordered them) as-is will be 3,000 passengers-per-hour-per-directions PPHPD.

The design according to Bombardier Transportation is 33,000 PPHPD with max equipment - top of the line.

33,000 IF this is true is THE magic number for most fixed transit, so there is nothing wrong with the design, it's just not set up to "show off" as it's currently running. However it is built to do the job.

I'm working on another doodle for the stadium area.

OCKLAWAHA

[Coolyfett]

I love the prospect of extending the Skyway to the Stadium - more specifically the Sports Complex, but what's the frequency/capacity? For instance, if say, 2,000 people park at the King Street Garage/Station, how efficiently could they be transported to their vehicles assuming that they all queued up at the same time after an event?  Would it work?  Could it work?  Can cars be added?  It's also intriguing to think about the Skyway terminating "into" the stadium as I've read before, but is that a viable option considering that there are really no events to speak of at that location several months a year?  Would they simply not run that leg there during lean months?  Also, I wish that it Really went to the Landing & down Bay.........(sigh)

Well I don't think running it into the stadium is a good idea, but it does NEED to terminate in the area thats fair to the other venues. As far as no events for several months, the same could be said for Union Station & Kings Avenue Station. If/When the economy gets better, more concerts will return to JaxVet, many concerts at Metro Park, Suns baseball, The J.A.Fair, easy access to Kid Kampus (moms will love that). The Sports Complex Station would be fine year round.


NOW about the Landing....right now the station that serves the Landing is Central Station. If there was a station at Bay & Laura that would serve The Jacksonville Landing perfect!!! Its doesn't need to be a station at the Landing. Water Street is the next block...Its right there.  They could even build a catwalk for Laura and Bay that connects to the Landings 2nd floor. Easy!

As for when they will get started on doing what NEEDS to be done. Hey its Jacksonville.........

[Ocklawaha]

Okay gang, hope you can figure this one out. It's the latest doodle on the Sports District Multi-Modal Station.
It sits on Fairgrounds Property in the NE corner of Duval and Randolph and runs through to Beaver. Long and rather narrow. Skyway is above the bus floor, streetcar is alongside the buses down below. The whole thing should match the Arena and Garage and have an overpass from Skyway deck to Garage. On weekdays all that parking at the foot of those bridges could be turned into CASH as the downtown garages could go private and join the tax rolls.



What do you think?

OCKLAWAHA