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Started by BridgeTroll, June 30, 2008, 10:16:19 AM

Adam White

"If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly."

remc86007

Quote from: Adam White on February 01, 2017, 07:26:27 AM
There is nothing "commonsense" about increasing our reliance on fossil fuels.

or allowing a foreign corporation to use our eminent domain laws to take land from Americans for a pipeline that may very well not be economically viable to operate in a few decades...but I guess giving land to foreigners is a good start to making America great again...

BridgeTroll

Quote from: remc86007 on February 02, 2017, 09:02:07 AM
Quote from: Adam White on February 01, 2017, 07:26:27 AM
There is nothing "commonsense" about increasing our reliance on fossil fuels.

or allowing a foreign corporation to use our eminent domain laws to take land from Americans for a pipeline that may very well not be economically viable to operate in a few decades...but I guess giving land to foreigners is a good start to making America great again...

However a pipeline might be the safest, most efficient manner to transport a product that ultimately will be transported...  Besides... the bear is smiling and holding a balloon and there is a unicorn with a rainbow...  8)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

finehoe

The oil from that pipeline will go to China, not the US.

BridgeTroll

Quote from: finehoe on February 02, 2017, 09:22:45 AM
The oil from that pipeline will go to China, not the US.

By train?  By truck?
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

UNFurbanist

By ship. That's the plan...

remc86007

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 02, 2017, 09:14:28 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on February 02, 2017, 09:02:07 AM
Quote from: Adam White on February 01, 2017, 07:26:27 AM
There is nothing "commonsense" about increasing our reliance on fossil fuels.

or allowing a foreign corporation to use our eminent domain laws to take land from Americans for a pipeline that may very well not be economically viable to operate in a few decades...but I guess giving land to foreigners is a good start to making America great again...

However a pipeline might be the safest, most efficient manner to transport a product that ultimately will be transported...  Besides... the bear is smiling and holding a balloon and there is a unicorn with a rainbow...  8)

But would it ultimately be transported? I think the argument is that if we stop increasing supply the price will naturally climb and the world will "naturally" become less dependent on fossil fuels.

JaxJersey-licious

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 02, 2017, 09:14:28 AM
However a pipeline might be the safest, most efficient manner to transport a product that ultimately will be transported...  Besides... the bear is smiling and holding a balloon and there is a unicorn with a rainbow...  8)

That's exactly what Rex Tillerson used to tell himself every morning to get him to drag his ass to the office.

bill

Quote from: remc86007 on February 02, 2017, 08:57:57 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 02, 2017, 09:14:28 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on February 02, 2017, 09:02:07 AM
Quote from: Adam White on February 01, 2017, 07:26:27 AM
There is nothing "commonsense" about increasing our reliance on fossil fuels.

or allowing a foreign corporation to use our eminent domain laws to take land from Americans for a pipeline that may very well not be economically viable to operate in a few decades...but I guess giving land to foreigners is a good start to making America great again...


However a pipeline might be the safest, most efficient manner to transport a product that ultimately will be transported...  Besides... the bear is smiling and holding a balloon and there is a unicorn with a rainbow...  8)

But would it ultimately be transported? I think the argument is that if we stop increasing supply the price will naturally climb and the world will "naturally" become less dependent on fossil fuels.

Dumb. If the price goes up then production is increased. Common sense or econ 101.

remc86007

Quote from: bill on February 02, 2017, 10:02:10 PM
Quote from: remc86007 on February 02, 2017, 08:57:57 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 02, 2017, 09:14:28 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on February 02, 2017, 09:02:07 AM
Quote from: Adam White on February 01, 2017, 07:26:27 AM
There is nothing "commonsense" about increasing our reliance on fossil fuels.

or allowing a foreign corporation to use our eminent domain laws to take land from Americans for a pipeline that may very well not be economically viable to operate in a few decades...but I guess giving land to foreigners is a good start to making America great again...


However a pipeline might be the safest, most efficient manner to transport a product that ultimately will be transported...  Besides... the bear is smiling and holding a balloon and there is a unicorn with a rainbow...  8)

But would it ultimately be transported? I think the argument is that if we stop increasing supply the price will naturally climb and the world will "naturally" become less dependent on fossil fuels.

Dumb. If the price goes up then production is increased. Common sense or econ 101.

That's not what I got from "econ 101."

If the supply curve shifts to the left (or rather, doesn't shift to the right, which is what I am proposing would happen if the pipeline were not built) there will be a higher price and lower quantity (see graph in hyperlink below). Sure, new entrants may decide to enter the market (or OPEC will simply open the tap) and thus push the price and quantity back to their original equilibrium, but if that is to be assumed, then your suggestion, too, is moot.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DdQ35laFFvw/UbREO0GUYKI/AAAAAAAAAvc/mCDVEfWNDU8/s1600/supply_curve_shifts_left.jpg

bill

You obviously do not have common sense or your econ 101 was horrible. Either way this basic tenet seems out of your grasp.

remc86007

Quote from: bill on February 02, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
You obviously do not have common sense or your econ 101 was horrible. Either way this basic tenet seems out of your grasp.

Explain it to me then. Please.

bill

I will try and keep it simple. If the cost of a commodity goes up and there is room for profit, then more capital will be used to exploit that delta. If oil prices go beyond the price of production then there will be more production. Hence more oil and if demand(or supply) does not meet equilibrium then there will be flow from capital and resources back and forth. Its why oil never stays at 130 or 30 bucks per bbl.   

BridgeTroll

Quote from: UNFurbanist on February 02, 2017, 08:49:01 PM
By ship. That's the plan...

I don't recall many oil tankers in North Dakota... perhaps a canal?
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

BridgeTroll

In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."