Study recommends JEA demolish, rebuild headquarters at $57 to $64 million

[thelakelander]

The old Ivey's is six stories with around 180,000 square feet. The DCPS building is 112,000 square feet and they are willing to take less space, if the right deal comes along. Could DCPS be a potential tenant if JEA left? Sure. They could be one of a large mix of office, retail and residential uses that could help fill up the space vacated by JEA.

[UNFurbanist]

Couldn't the city "make" JEA give it away for free to a developer or business they want to bring downtown? I think the DIA should be brought in to take a much closer look at this!

[thelakelander]

^No, the city can't "make" JEA give their property away for free. The city won't do that for the properties they do own (ex. city hall annex, old courthouse, etc.).

[FlaBoy]

But as a quasi-governmental organization that relies on the City to allow them to charge certain rates, they can be persuaded if the City really wanted. 

[camarocane]

Imagine the uproar from rate payers, the media, etc. if JEA just "gave away" a (multi)million dollar asset even if it was at the demand of the city. I doubt anyone would want to jump down that rabbit hole.

EDIT** by gave away, I mean anything less than fair market value.

[thelakelander]

They didn't give up the JEA southside generation station site for free. I seriously doubt they'd give up the Church Street blocks for free. However, the fear a bad public image would probably have more impact on getting them to build elsewhere (the cheaper option) and selling the existing property.

Plus in reality, selling the existing property actually brings them more money and if a new use can be found, enhances the Northbank environment two fold:

A. The chilled water block is a dead block. A new building enhances the surrounding LaVilla area, keeps 800 employees downtown, opening economic opportunity for supporting businesses in that struggling area of the Northbank. Also, having another highrise in the skyline would be a benefit to the Northbank's image.

B. Redevelopment of JEA's current site with a mix of alternative uses that put people on the street at night and on weekends, would be a better use of the Church Street site than keeping JEA there.  More pedestrian scale activity in that section of the Northbank would help create an environment for additional redevelopment, helping stimulate the Northbank away from the riverfront.

[FlaBoy]

They didn't give up the JEA southside generation station site for free. I seriously doubt they'd give up the Church Street blocks for free. However, the fear a bad public image would probably have more impact on getting them to build elsewhere (the cheaper option) and selling the existing property.

Plus in reality, selling the existing property actually brings them more money and if a new use can be found, enhances the Northbank environment two fold:

A. The chilled water block is a dead block. A new building enhances the surrounding LaVilla area, keeps 800 employees downtown, opening economic opportunity for supporting businesses in that struggling area of the Northbank. Also, having another highrise in the skyline would be a benefit to the Northbank's image.

B. Redevelopment of JEA's current site with a mix of alternative uses that put people on the street at night and on weekends, would be a better use of the Church Street site than keeping JEA there.  More pedestrian scale activity in that section of the Northbank would help create an environment for additional redevelopment, helping stimulate the Northbank away from the riverfront.

Where is the Chilled Water Block?

[TimmyB]

Lake, what is the current occupancy rate of the downtown area?  It seems many are suggesting that it would be so easy to find other users or a buyer for their current building, but when I read the MJ pages over the past year or so, I get the feeling that there is already too much empty office space in DT.  Is that the case, or have things improved?   (Or, was I misinformed to begin with?)

[thelakelander]

In 2015: 18.5% vacancy rate Class A, 12.6% Class B and 43.4% Class C.

http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/2015_State_of_Downtown_Report_Low_Res.sflb.ashx

IMO, you most likely fill it with a mix of things that would include a significantly reduced amount of office space. Maybe apartments, a hotel and mix of those uses with some office space since plumbing needs to be updated anyway? As for the old retail spaces, maybe some niche retail or restaurant spaces. You could even go with cultural or storage uses in spaces with no windows and high ceiling heights, like the upper floors of the old Ivey's.  Heck, you could probably turn the ground floor of the old Ivey's into a craft brewery, given the floor-to-ceiling heights of its main lobby area. 

As an example, GDC Properties turned the former 113,000 square foot Orlando Utilities Commission building in downtown Orlando into an 118-unit Aloft Hotel a few years ago.  In Detroit, the long closed 1,136 room Book Cadillac Hotel was renovated into a 455 room Westin and 67 condo units in 2008 after being vacant for 20 years.

Anyway, I'm not saying any specific type of use is 100% viable. I'm just saying you can do a lot with a structurally viable set of buildings, with their own built in off-street parking needs, outside of just using them as traditional office space.  Demolition of structurally sound buildings shouldn't be a real option on the table, IMO.

[FlaBoy]

They didn't give up the JEA southside generation station site for free. I seriously doubt they'd give up the Church Street blocks for free. However, the fear a bad public image would probably have more impact on getting them to build elsewhere (the cheaper option) and selling the existing property.

Plus in reality, selling the existing property actually brings them more money and if a new use can be found, enhances the Northbank environment two fold:

A. The chilled water block is a dead block. A new building enhances the surrounding LaVilla area, keeps 800 employees downtown, opening economic opportunity for supporting businesses in that struggling area of the Northbank. Also, having another highrise in the skyline would be a benefit to the Northbank's image.

B. Redevelopment of JEA's current site with a mix of alternative uses that put people on the street at night and on weekends, would be a better use of the Church Street site than keeping JEA there.  More pedestrian scale activity in that section of the Northbank would help create an environment for additional redevelopment, helping stimulate the Northbank away from the riverfront.

Where is the Chilled Water Block?

Is the site behind the Courthouse?

[FlaBoy]

In 2015: 18.5% vacancy rate Class A, 12.6% Class B and 43.4% Class C.

http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/2015_State_of_Downtown_Report_Low_Res.sflb.ashx

IMO, you most likely fill it with a mix of things that would include a significantly reduced amount of office space. Maybe apartments, a hotel and mix of those uses with some office space since plumbing needs to be updated anyway? As for the old retail spaces, maybe some niche retail or restaurant spaces. You could even go with cultural or storage uses in spaces with no windows and high ceiling heights, like the upper floors of the old Ivey's.  Heck, you could probably turn the ground floor of the old Ivey's into a craft brewery, given the floor-to-ceiling heights of its main lobby area. 

As an example, GDC Properties turned the former 113,000 square foot Orlando Utilities Commission building in downtown Orlando into an 118-unit Aloft Hotel a few years ago.  In Detroit, the long closed 1,136 room Book Cadillac Hotel was renovated into a 455 room Westin and 67 condo units in 2008 after being vacant for 20 years.

Anyway, I'm not saying any specific type of use is 100% viable. I'm just saying you can do a lot with a structurally viable set of buildings, with their own built in off-street parking needs, outside of just using them as traditional office space.  Demolition of structurally sound buildings shouldn't be a real option on the table, IMO.

Would this qualify as Class B?

[camarocane]

Don't forget the surface lot across main street by the Salvation Army.

[FlaBoy]

Don't forget the surface lot across main street by the Salvation Army.

I don't know who owns that land, but that would be my preferred spot.

[FlaBoy]

Did the discussion concerning the old JEA building ever have any movement past this?

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/04/09/developer-proposing-31-million-project-at-former.html

[howfam]

I love the look of the old Ivy (now JEA) building. I remember this building in the early to mid 60s when it was virtually new (I was about 7 or 8 years old back then). I have always loved skyscrapers and was in awe of them and back in the day I used to get happy when my Mom said we were going shopping to Woolworth's, penny's, may cohens, etc. It was a treat to me holding her hand and just gawking and staring at those tall buildings (no true talls or even supertalls in jax back then). In my opinion, and I hope, they sell the existing building, and build a brand new skyscraper (around 400 to 500 feet tall), to provide a signature and impact to the city and the skyline; hey, JEA is a local business and commercial force in Jacksonville, so don't be scared JEA, provide an "in your face" impact and effect by building a signature skyscraper to add to our already interesting skyline (it could use a lot more for a city of almost 900K people). This is my take.

I like that mind set. Skyscrapers are always appropriate in the downtown area of a big city, and Jax is in desperate need of some signature buildings. I was in both Tampa and Orlando this past weekend and was so thrilled to see the wonderful highrises they both have giving that big city look and feel that Jax desperately needs.   I'm just tired of having to avoid downtown when I have visitors in town for fear they will be disappointed with,  or laugh at our downtown. Maybe one good size building of at least 25 stories is needed to stimulate downtown in general and surely other developments even taller will follow.