Expanding the Skyway: Where would you like it to go?

[thelakelander]

^That's one of the options under consideration. However, it also limits expansion possibilities.

[ricker]

^That's one of the options under consideration. However, it also limits expansion possibilities.

Is this to say that perhaps squeezing a little more life out of the existing cars will allow feasible timing to plan design build contextually sympathetic extensions to accommodate newer vehicles which can then travel on a seamless unified system which involves a retrofit/upgrade to all current decks?

Brooklyn is at grade already, but where will a Stadium/A.Phillip Randolph extension drop and where will that ramp be located?

A ramp next to FSCJ north of RosaParks wouldn't be so bad.

A southerly extension from Kings Ave parking garage similarly wouldn't have to be an eyesore.

But. E.Bay street?
Where would the elevated structure lower and what will that ultimately look like?

I keep favoring dropping to grade with the notion that if every single station doesn't require elevators, escalators, overhead track... Maybe it will cost less to flesh out into more than just a downtown circulator

[SightseerLounge]

One thing that could be done with the Skyway right now is to create a link from around Jefferson Station to the Acosta Bridge! With all of these expansion and vehicle choice plans, the basics are forgotten! That would make a Wye formation at that point!

People wouldn't have to go to Central just to get to the other side of the river! One could go from the Westside to the Southside via the Acosta without having to go to Rosa Parks, or they wouldn't have to walk to the Pearl & Water bus stop. The Skyway would be more useful! At least, that would open up more options for the whole system.

[brucef58]

There should be two initial extensions:  Along Bay Street to Lot A at EverBank Field; this line would include 8 stations and park-n-ride for 7000 at EverBank Field.  For concerts, sporting events, etc. this would be reversed and people would park Downtown and on the Southbank or catch the ASE at their hotels to attend these events.

Later additions should be to San Marco and UF Health.

Bruce

[thelakelander]

Jessica Shepler, director of government affairs for the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, said that the agency's plan for its Skyway system tops its list of 2017 objectives.

She said the plan could include sharing space with autonomous vehicles, otherwise known as self-driving cars.

http://jacksonville.com/news/2016-11-30/mayor-curry-wants-50-million-state-knock-down-hart-bridge-ramps

[Sonic101]

Could reuse those ramp support piers to extend the Skyway to the stadium or is that overkill?

[thelakelander]

^Most likely not. Besides, if they're looking for vehicles to drop the system to grade, there would be no need for an elevated transit structure in the stadium district.

[Jax-Nole]

According to Jacksonville.com, JTA will be announcing their "vastly different" plans for the Skyway on Thursday. This is in an article discussing JTA's plan to begin testing autonomous buses within the next 2 years.

Ford said JTA officials decided to maintain and extend the Skyway rail system. He said doing that with the current 27-year-old technology would be ill-advised, particularly with developing technology for autonomous vehicles.

Ford said the original Skyway was expensive and never lived up to its potential, and his staff is doing its research to avoid that mistake. The Skyway, with design, construction and materials, cost $182 million for 2.5 miles of tracks and eight train stations. The driverless system was ahead of its time.

The structure of the Skyway system is sound, but the vehicles are obsolete and expensive to maintain, according to JTA.

JTA staff members are familiarizing themselves with the technologies and determining when will be the "sweet spot" for JTA to make the transition to include autonomous vehicles in the system, Ford said. He wants JTA to transition to the technologies without gambling, embarrassing the agency or wasting money.

This year, the focus is on research and development, identifying funding, identifying partners, and looking at what locations would make sense for a pilot — such as down Bay Street or on a college campus, Ford said.

Ford said they want to keep the Skyway running for another five years with improvements and investments, but in the meantime are establishing a plan to move forward using emerging technologies.

The new system could cover a loop incorporating key locations in and near downtown, possibly including Riverside and the sports complex that includes EverBank Field and the arena, Ford said. He said they must consider connectivity to those and other areas and using Skyway to do that is cost prohibitive.

The optimal system would be flexible and able to travel at street level, allowing it to serve new areas, or on the elevated platform currently supporting Skyway.

"It will not be taking Skyway and extending concrete," Ford said. The extensions will "look vastly different than today," he said.

Ford said the proposed Skyway plans, to be unveiled at the Thursday JTA board meeting, could surprise people.

http://jacksonville.com/news/2016-12-04/jta-planning-pilot-future-automated-vehicles

[Keith-N-Jax]

Interesting but the Skyway never living up to its potential is directly on JTA not the Skyway. That's just like saying this dog is poorly trained but you did nothing to train it.

[thelakelander]

It's also on the city. It was built for a downtown that doesn't exist anymore and it was never fed riders by a regional system. Those two things combined, equal failure.

[thelakelander]

What's everyone's thoughts of something like this or autonomous vehicles running at-grade but on its own lanes as opposed to mixing in the regular traffic?  Would this be enough to also provide the land development benefit of TOD stimulation outside of the central business district?



Also, the article says they'd like to do a pilot project within the next two years. If they did, where do you believe it would be most advantageous for it to be done?

Jacksonville Transportation Authority CEO Nathaniel Ford said JTA officials are in discussions with some autonomous vehicle manufacturers and he hopes to have one of them soon bring a vehicle to Jacksonville for a demonstration. He said their target is to have a pilot program in the next two years.

JTA staff members are familiarizing themselves with the technologies and determining when will be the "sweet spot" for JTA to make the transition to include autonomous vehicles in the system, Ford said. He wants JTA to transition to the technologies without gambling, embarrassing the agency or wasting money.

This year, the focus is on research and development, identifying funding, identifying partners, and looking at what locations would make sense for a pilot — such as down Bay Street or on a college campus, Ford said.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/2016-12-04/jta-planning-pilot-future-automated-vehicles

[JeffreyS]

Could something like that share space with the Riverside Trollies(buses)?

[Tacachale]

I don't know about this. The technology seems pretty speculative right now compared to fixed transit options that will have a lot more TOD opportunities than any bus, driverless or not. The only way I could see this working would be dedicated lanes on all or most of the routes. At that point, I don't see the benefit, unless it's substantially cheaper than rail lines.

[Adam White]

I don't know about this. The technology seems pretty speculative right now compared to fixed transit options that will have a lot more TOD opportunities than any bus, driverless or not. The only way I could see this working would be dedicated lanes on all or most of the routes. At that point, I don't see the benefit, unless it's substantially cheaper than rail lines.

What's the benefit of a driverless bus over a traditional one? Aside from saving a bit on driver salaries, of course.

[thelakelander]

I don't know about this. The technology seems pretty speculative right now compared to fixed transit options that will have a lot more TOD opportunities than any bus, driverless or not.

It's not fixed, so flexibility would be considered a benefit to some. However, flexibility in terms of being able to run at-grade or on the Skyway's elevated structure is different than flexibility, in terms of shifting routes on various corridors or mixing in with regular vehicular traffic. If stimulating TOD and attracting choice riders are major factors of consideration, some form of dedicated lanes and ROW would probably need to be seriously considered.

The only way I could see this working would be dedicated lanes on all or most of the routes. At that point, I don't see the benefit, unless it's substantially cheaper than rail lines.

Excluding vehicle costs, vehicle O&M, capacity needs, etc., if a lane was dedicated to it on an existing street (ex. road diet), then it would be significantly cheaper than building rail. However, without the dedicated lane, you'd lose most of the ancillary that a high capacity transit corridor can bring to an urban area.


Right-sizing an existing street by adding a traffic separator to create a dedicated lane wouldn't be significantly different than doing it for a cycle track.

What's the benefit of a driverless bus over a traditional one? Aside from saving a bit on driver salaries, of course.

^From a choice rider's perspective, that will be a challenge that will have to be answered as things progress.