New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone

[thelakelander]

In this image, you can see what the jail and JSO office took out. The two multi-story warehouses in the middle/right of the image, make up the west and east ends of the main Maxwell House plant.

[Bativac]

What do you mean, the Maxwell plant aside? Maxwell House has been one of the few companies that never abandoned downtown. They've been there forever and there should be no suggestion that they are somehow hindering progress downtown.

It's a little odd to have the jail right there, but given how many strange choices have been made regarding riverfront property over the decades, it's not that unusual. I think Jacksonville riverfront property has not always had the high value that some people perceive it to have today. (Based on selling my own house recently and the drawn-out listings of some San Marco homes, I STILL don't think it has the high value some people think it should have.)

Even though I find their coffee nearly unpalatable, I totally agree. To me, that Maxwell House plant is one of the coolest things on the river, and one of the few waterfront features that is uniquely Jacksonville. Love the industrial, vaguely steampunk look of the building. Love the signage. Love the smell. Though last I heard Maxwell House had no interest, I really do like the idea of tours and a sidewalk cafe once the area starts to develop.

Their coffee is truly awful but the factory is still a great asset for downtown Jax. And the smell! So much better than a paper mill.

As for tours, a friend of mine works for Winn Dixie and toured the facility. He said it really isn't "visitor friendly." A lot of it was built to sort of retrofit into the old building, so it's not an easy place to get around. Not like Sweet Pete's or the Budweiser brewery.

[Kerry]

The problem with jail and police headquarters is the Soviet-style brutalist architecture.  Lots of old jails with decent architecture can be an asset.  Alas, cities only build cheap crap now.  Back in the day cities had style, class, and pride.  Just check out Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia - it is a whole former prison in the middle of the city and is crazy cool.

[thelakelander]

The Police Administration Building was designed by William Morgan.  He was viewed as influential as H.J. Klutho was in his day. The building, with its roof top gardens, was seen as cutting edge back during the mid-1970s.

http://jacksonville.com/slideshow/2016-03-27/vintage-jacksonville-police-headquarters-buildings#slide-1

Police Administration Building: Located in Jacksonville, Florida, this Roche and Dickenloo inspired building draws inspiration from the Oakland Museum in California.  A complex yet rhythmic interplay of stepped profiles in deeply-banded gray and white concrete make up the breezeways and courtyards of this stately, modernist structure, complete with rooftop gardens.  And while built for the purposes of housing law-enforcement activities, the built environment serves dually as a well-organized, civic venue for impromptu outdoor activities with ample seating to be used for informal meetings, study areas, picnicking and/or play spaces for kids.  Design/Completion 1971-1975

https://modernmorgan.wordpress.com/

[thelakelander]

Looking at the Oakland Museum, that building would look completely different from now if the roof garden would have been allowed to grow, instead of it being shut down to the public and having its trees and water features ripped out....

[Tacachale]

It's easy to dump on past designs with decades of hindsight. Back then no one knew that the industrial waterfront would be desirable commercial/residential property; it was seen as a good way to affordably build a badly needed jail. When it's time for a new jail and police building, they won't be in the same place, but I'm sure future citizens will have plenty of reasons to declare the location misguided wherever it is.

[DrQue]

Looking at the Oakland Museum, that building would look completely different from now if the roof garden would have been allowed to grow, instead of it being shut down to the public and having its trees and water features ripped out...

Wow! I had no idea the police station was designed to have those kind of green features. That would really make a difference in terms of how that entire block feels.

Why did they rip them out?

[thelakelander]

I'd don't know the full story, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were done for security concerns after an event like 9/11. With that said, I have a new appreciation for the building. At some point in the future, maybe the JSO should go too and a new use that reopens the garden could be considered.

[KenFSU]

Per the T-U, the Berkman II rezoning is potentially linked to hotel development on the site.

[Tacachale]

Per the T-U, the Berkman II rezoning is potentially linked to hotel development on the site.

I wonder if this is related to the hotel Khan's been talking about. If not, I'd question the wisdom of building another hotel downtown considering all the existing ones and the one Khan wants to build.

[Charles Hunter]

I seem to remember there were issues with roof leaks. Don't know if that was connected to the plants, or just poor construction.

[KenFSU]

Per the T-U, the Berkman II rezoning is potentially linked to hotel development on the site.

I wonder if this is related to the hotel Khan's been talking about. If not, I'd question the wisdom of building another hotel downtown considering all the existing ones and the one Khan wants to build.

I would guess 100% no. Shad Khan, from early Shipyards renderings to most recent comments, indicates that he wants to build a luxury hotel that is closely integrated with Everbank Field and Daily's Place. Metro Park has been zeroed in on for said development, and whether we like such sweetheart deals or not, you can be sure there have been plenty of off-the-record conversations between the city and Mark Lamping about how that development, and future Shipyards development, is going to take shape.

The Times-Union seems to be basing their entire hotel theory on the fact that the contact listed for the project works for Indy Hotels LLC, a small ($600,000k annual revenue) Savannah-based agency.

Doesn't make sense to me. There's simply no market for a hotel in the Berkman II spot, a block from the Hyatt, when downtown's two biggest private financiers (Khan + Rummell) are already eyeing their own hotels nearby as well.

My best guess is that Choate desperately wants to unload the property, can't find any luck finding a buyer to complete the project as condos, and thinks that commercial CBD zoning will make it more attractive to potential developers.

Either way, I would think this foretells demolition more than completion.

[thelakelander]

I can't imagine Choate spending millions more for demolition. They're trying to get the money they already have in it, out. Demolition would be their worse case scenario from a financial perspective. They'd be better off walking away, then tossing more money into that pit.

[Kerry]

I have always wondered why downtown Jax never took part in the booming national trend of downtown hotels.  For the last 15 years hotel funding was easier to get than herpes on Tinder.

[KenFSU]

I can't imagine Choate spending millions more for demolition. They're trying to get the money they already have in it, out. Demolition would be their worse case scenario from a financial perspective. They'd be better off walking away, then tossing more money into that pit.

With the proposed zoning change from urban residential to commercial CBD, wouldn't the only way around demolition be addressing any issues related to neglect and then converting the existing shell to hotel or office use? How feasible would you guess something like that to be?