New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone

[KenFSU]

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548780

[FlaBoy]

Mixed use?

[pears045]

Forgive me if this topic has been discussed before, but why on earth was the jail ever planned/approved to be built where it is?  That has to be one of the biggest blunders in downtown history and I know there are many!  The Maxwell plant aside, it hinders so many possibilities in that area of the core.     

[FlaBoy]

Forgive me if this topic has been discussed before, but why on earth was the jail ever planned/approved to be built where it is?  That has to be one of the biggest blunders in downtown history and I know there are many!  The Maxwell plant aside, it hinders so many possibilities in that area of the core.   

When was it built?

[pears045]

When was it built?
[/quote]

1991

[KenFSU]

Forgive me if this topic has been discussed before, but why on earth was the jail ever planned/approved to be built where it is?

Things were different in 1991. Our county jail system was so overcrowded that the federal government was monitoring it and the prisoners perceived to be the least dangerous were simply released into the streets each day to make room for others. When the time came to build a new jail, the decision was made to simply build it directly behind police headquarters. Wasn't uncommon to see government buildings clustered on the river back then, and the new courthouse was expected to be built next to the police headquarters and jail as well.

I don't think people even thought anything of until Shipyards redevelopment was proposed in the early 2000s.

The pretrial detention component of the facility is what keeps the jail tied to downtown. Around 500 prisoners a day are moved between pretrial detention and the courthouse, which is why many cities have their jails so close to their courthouses. There were talks of including a 48-hour pretrial detention facility at the new courthouse, allowing the jail to be moved anywhere in the county when it reached end-of-life, but that idea never came to fruition.

That said, I don't know if closing, razing, and relocating the jail would be the worth the $100 million+ price tag the project would command. At least not at this time. It's not really that much of an eyesore, the sheer density of police in the area kind of offsets any perceived safety issues, and it wouldn't be hard to develop the Shipyards property in a way that keeps the prison somewhat hidden from site. 

[lastdaysoffla]

Forgive me if this topic has been discussed before, but why on earth was the jail ever planned/approved to be built where it is?  That has to be one of the biggest blunders in downtown history and I know there are many!  The Maxwell plant aside, it hinders so many possibilities in that area of the core.   

I don't think it hinders things that much, the biggest eyesore associated with the jail is all the bondsmen offices. I would think more people come in and out of the Sulzbacher Center on a daily basis than the jail. I don't hear of many crimes committed by inmates just released from the jail. The Berkman II is more of a nuisance.

[Bativac]

What do you mean, the Maxwell plant aside? Maxwell House has been one of the few companies that never abandoned downtown. They've been there forever and there should be no suggestion that they are somehow hindering progress downtown.

It's a little odd to have the jail right there, but given how many strange choices have been made regarding riverfront property over the decades, it's not that unusual. I think Jacksonville riverfront property has not always had the high value that some people perceive it to have today. (Based on selling my own house recently and the drawn-out listings of some San Marco homes, I STILL don't think it has the high value some people think it should have.)

[KenFSU]

What do you mean, the Maxwell plant aside? Maxwell House has been one of the few companies that never abandoned downtown. They've been there forever and there should be no suggestion that they are somehow hindering progress downtown.

It's a little odd to have the jail right there, but given how many strange choices have been made regarding riverfront property over the decades, it's not that unusual. I think Jacksonville riverfront property has not always had the high value that some people perceive it to have today. (Based on selling my own house recently and the drawn-out listings of some San Marco homes, I STILL don't think it has the high value some people think it should have.)

Even though I find their coffee nearly unpalatable, I totally agree. To me, that Maxwell House plant is one of the coolest things on the river, and one of the few waterfront features that is uniquely Jacksonville. Love the industrial, vaguely steampunk look of the building. Love the signage. Love the smell. Though last I heard Maxwell House had no interest, I really do like the idea of tours and a sidewalk cafe once the area starts to develop. 

[thelakelander]

I don't see the jail's location as odd. When it was built, that entire district was heavy industry and downtown was considered to be too the west of it. Crazy thing is, if you go outside of Jax, you'll find tons of jails on urban waterfronts, due to waterfronts once being a place of industry and trade, as opposed to recreation and luxury living. Here's two examples:

Houston

Harris County Jail on Buffalo Bayou in downtown Houston


Fort Lauderdale

New River in downtown Fort Lauderdale with Broward County Jail in background center of the site.

As for Maxwell House, they aren't hindering anything.  If redevelopment can take place around Baltimore's Domino Sugar, it can happen near Maxwell House:


Domino Sugar sits in the background of this Inner Harbor photo


Domino Sugar zoomed in


At a waterfront park next door to Domino

[KenFSU]

Houston

Harris County Jail on Buffalo Bayou in downtown Houston

Those views.

Love the Yelp reviews:

https://www.yelp.com/biz/harris-county-sheriffs-office-701-jail-houston

REALLY interesting history too.

701 Jail

The 701 Jail (located at 701 North San Jacinto Street) is one of the largest detention facilities in the United States.[3] The seven floor 701 Jail has 4,144 inmate beds. The 701 Jail, originally a five-story building to be used as a cold storage warehouse,[4] opened in the late 1920s. The Houston Terminal Warehouse and Cold Storage Facility was constantly occupied throughout its history. In 1989 the county completed the planning and design stage of its new jail. The cold storage portion was allowed to thaw, and construction on the facility began in December of that year.[3] The facility was gutted and two floors were added.[4] The 701 Jail opened in August 1991.[3] Harris County stated that the re-use of the warehouse saved the county about $21,000,000. About 600 sheriff's deputies and detention officers work in the facility. The county designates the 701 Jail as a "Direct Observation" facility, where staff members monitor inmates continuously for 24 hours per day, 7 days per week.[4] In 2002 the 701 Jail was the second largest American jail, with the Los Angeles County Men's Central Jail of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department being the largest.[5]

[thelakelander]

Here's a few pictures from its surroundings....

[Keith-N-Jax]

That jail though is very easy on the eyes, unlike the one in Jacksonville, I think most people just ignore it though.

[vicupstate]

Teh jail is an eyesore and it is pretty obvious what it is, the Houston on, not so much.  But worse than the appearance is the fact it is a large dead zone right on Bay Street and together with Maxwell House, creates a long a hell block of  disconnection between the Stadium district and the Elbow/ Landing area.

[thelakelander]

Unfortunately, it's always going to be cut off as long as the bridge ramps and the contaminated former railyard under them remain.





For the majority of the city's history, it's been what we'd consider a superblock. IMO, the Northbank core and the stadium area will always been separate nodes of activities. We'll just have to get creative in finding and implementing long term solutions to better bridge the gap.