IF THE CITY GAVE YOU THE SKYWAY?

[Ocklawaha]

Got a question for all of you...

Let's supose an amazing new privatization movement swept through Jacksonville. Let's say the government had some funds to assist you along, maybe $30 Mil or so in capital improvements, and they called you up and offered you the Skyway System.

Here's the "Contract"

You must keep the system running, but you CAN alter it, in anyway, extend it, change the trains, guideway, stations, locations, etc... That $30 Million capital expense money, is enough to add at least 2 miles and a bunch of nice, or?  Just so you keep at least the current miles running through downtown. The City says they have your back, on O&M charges, but they do expect YOU to turn the darn thing around - MAKE IT WORK. Along with your new title, you'll get some oversight on JTA, on other transit routes etc... You've got 5 years to make it jump - or out you go...

What do you do?

I know, "Ock, surely you can't be serious?"
"I am serious, and don't call me Shirley."

Jokes are fine here, but PLEASE try and offer something REAL to the theme of the thread FIRST!

[ProjectMaximus]

(The quote below was deleted as the poster violated the rules of the game, but it was left here for context in this smart reply... BTW- Theme parks are building "Skyways" for far less then 15Mil a mile. Moderator)

30 million would barely fund stairways to platforms in 1 station, play your games with real numbers, a few hundred million a mile seems to be what it takes these days to build a rail system, then there are continuing labor, operating and capital costs that need to be met. It's nice to dream but unfortunately we don't live in a dream world

30 million for stairways? Man, you're getting jacked. I'll do it for 25 and save you a few million.

[Jason]

First of, I'd drop a short extension and a station in Brooklyn.  Maybe a few blocks south of the maintenance barn leaving room for a future extension up Forest St. then down Park St. and into 5 Points just beyond I95.

Second, I'd extend the operating hours to run the system from 5:30 AM to 2:30 AM, Monday-Friday.  A consistent operation schedule is a definite plus for regular DT employees, residents, and nightlife.

Next, strike a deal with government employees to use the perifery garages at Kings Ave and Prime Osborne to park for free and ride the Skyway into the core. 

Lastly, reroute the rubber wheeled trollys to connect those that work at the current courthouse (and other government office not within a couple blocks of the line) to Central & FCCJ Stations.  The new Trolly route from 5 points to the Landing would remain intact.  The Landing would then act as a transfer point for the newly re-routed Azealea and Magnolia lines that will better connect the sports district and LaVilla to the Skyway.

I think that would eat up all $30 million but would significantly enhance the system.  If I could then drum up about another $50 mil and team up with a private developer or say Wayne Weaver, a new leg to the Sports district would be phase 2 of my operations.

[Driven1]

if the city gave me the skyway, i have no clue where i would put it.  i guess i could put a stop in my front yard, a stop in my back yard and a stop across the creek. 

[thelakelander]

1. Allow advertising on the cars.  I would use this money to help market and improve certain elements of the system to attract new riders.

2. Use existing stations in dense areas for alternative uses.  Art shows, food vendors, private parties, etc.  Anything that might attract more people to the property.

3. Work with JTA to make sure the Skyway becomes an important part of their RTS system.  I'd raise hell to keep the proposed BRT plans paralleling the skyway on the Southbank from happening.  I'd even file a lawsuit, if I had to.  Depending on the routes, I'd fight against streetcars as well.  Not to say that these systems are bad, but I would want to make sure they complement the skyway.

4. Make stations locally themed destinations. The ground level of these things are wasted opportunities, imo.  This is a city that has not cherished its rich history.  My skyway stations would take advantage of this by becoming spaces that expose various elements of Jacksonville along the gates, walls and open areas.  Sort of like a museum spreadout over several stations.  This addition could pull in a small segment of the tourist in town and could be funded from train wrap advertising.

5. Extend line one mile east to Stadium District.  Just serving the events at JMS, Metro Park, Kids Kampus, the Baseball Grounds and the arena would be a boost for ridership and TOD potential.  The connection past the courthouse/city hall annex, entertainment district, Hyatt, JSO, the jail and Maxwell House would also attract additional everyday riders.

6. Extend across the tracks to terminate at Atlantic Blvd. in San Marco.  This short extension ties the system and downtown in with one of the city's most vibrant urban retail and dining areas.  To save on costs, I'd get the thing over the tracks as quick as possible and run the last couple of thousand feet at grade.

7. Also add a short extension to Forest Street, paralleling Riverside Avenue.  Instead of building it in the sky, I'd probably elect to bring it to grade and trench it at certain spots (depending on costs).

8. To go along with my grand-reopening, I'd work with nearby employers and businesses along the line to offer some type of incentive program for people using the system.  For example, if you use the skyway to get to the Gas Knob in the Stadium District or Subway in Hemming Plaza, after a while, you would get a free meal.

9. Seek public/private partnerships for expansion.  Just because its given $30 million, does not mean it has to spent right a way.  If there are situations where expansion would benefit private development, then those developers should share in the cost to expand the thing.  I would work with developers to reduce their parking requirements and in turn, some of the money that would have been used on massive garages, could be used to improve the system and its connections with those developments.

[Jason]

Ok, I need to rewrite my plan to include:

Step 1:  Appoint Lakelander as my personal consultant.


I really like the ideas of enhancing the stations.  Making them mini destinations would be huge.  I'd also suggest using the money from advertising to replace the fares and make the system free.

[Ocklawaha]

if the city gave me the skyway, i have no clue where i would put it.  i guess i could put a stop in my front yard, a stop in my back yard and a stop across the creek. 

Come on in, put on your consultants coat and try and figure this out... Your the new Skyway CEO, what do YOU do?

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

JASON, did you mean from 5:30 AM to 2:30 AM or PM? The system is "fully automated" as far as the tech of 1980-2000 allowed, but it DOES have a Central Traffic Control (war room) with real live people watching and pushing the buttons.

OCKLAWAHA

[Jason]

Heh, yeah I meant AM to AM.  Corrected!

[Doctor_K]

Not to hijack the thread and get into too many nitty-gritty details, but I've always wondered:

If an extension to the Sports District were to be built, where would it run?  Along which road?  Originating from which existing station? 

Central Station up Bay? 
FCCJ Station down Union?

[thelakelander]

Central Station up Bay Street.

[Doctor_K]

Central Station up Bay Street.

Is that where that 'spur' pylon is?

[JeffreyS]

If you could get the thing from San Marco to Five points it would qualify(to me) as a starter transit system. Connecting neighborhoods with major employers, shopping,dining and entertainment. The neighborhoods you are connecting are already the most pedestrian friendly we have.  I would love to see a skyway cafe in San Marco. Lake's idea of Jacksonville themed mini museums at the stations is brilliant. The public private partnerships for expansion and advertising should be done.

[Ocklawaha]

Is that where that 'spur' pylon is? 

Sure is Doctor K, jump in and play with us.

If you could get the thing from San Marco to Five points it would qualify(to me) as a starter transit system. Connecting neighborhoods with major employers, shopping,dining and entertainment. The neighborhoods you are connecting are already the most pedestrian friendly we have.  I would love to see a skyway cafe in San Marco. Lake's idea of Jacksonville themed mini museums at the stations is brilliant. The public private partnerships for expansion and advertising should be done.

Great idea, give us your details, how and where would you take it to? I agree Lakes idea is brilliant, we have both been preaching and teaching MULTI-USE for transit stations and his is a fine example of "HOW TO" for Jacksonville 101. The Plano line of the Dallas LRT system follows the old Texas Electric Interurban right of way, sometimes directly on the old route, sometimes on the old Southern Pacific route. The stations look rather "Skywayish" until one walks up to the pillars or looks at the walls and floors. Trolley rails! Murals galore, with markers. Lightning bolts, TEXAS ELECTRIC emblems, even two fully restored TE INTERURBAN cars, one in Plano and one in Ft. Worth - Amtrak (soon to have streetcar/and/or/LRT). 

We never seem to think of carts, vendors, food stands, flowers, gifts, conductors, fare free, all sorts of systems to get folks to ride or visit. You are so right, I would ride the 5-Points - San Marco line, just tell me where I'll find YOUR stations.

[ProjectMaximus]

what was the reason given for not allowing advertising wraps during the Super Bowl?