Will the Libertarian Party actually make a difference this year?

[coredumped]

It sends a message that you're unhappy with the 2 other candidates.

It's voting for who you truly believe in. Win or lose.

When there are basic, central principles that you hold inviolate and form the basis of your political alignment, you wouldn't want to turn your back on those and vote against those principles just because you only have a choice of two people (both of whom are unacceptable in your eyes).

No one has explained what's the advantage of casting your vote in such a way that it results in the candidate who is farthest from your own beliefs and principles being elected, which is virtually always the result in American presidential politics.

I thought I did when I said "Trump or Hillary are equally terrible, toss a coin."

I get that most people think there's a lesser of 2 evils, but for me they're both crap.

[Adam White]

It sends a message that you're unhappy with the 2 other candidates.

It's voting for who you truly believe in. Win or lose.

When there are basic, central principles that you hold inviolate and form the basis of your political alignment, you wouldn't want to turn your back on those and vote against those principles just because you only have a choice of two people (both of whom are unacceptable in your eyes).

No one has explained what's the advantage of casting your vote in such a way that it results in the candidate who is farthest from your own beliefs and principles being elected, which is virtually always the result in American presidential politics.

I thought I did when I said "Trump or Hillary are equally terrible, toss a coin."

I get that most people think there's a lesser of 2 evils, but for me they're both crap.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Although I am not 100% certain about their mehodology or results, the link to the political compass website that I posted makes the point better than I can.

[finehoe]

But you're not just voting for a person, you're also voting for (or against) the candidate's party's platform.  Surely one side of this chart aligns with your own views more so than the other side does:

[coredumped]

Both those platforms are bigger government. The only party for smaller government and less military intervention is the LP.
Democrats say less military, but Obama is America's war president, Republicans say smaller government, but they're always in our personal lives.

[coredumped]

It's no less accurate than the left-biased graphic above. Tuition "free" education? Sure, nobody pays for it, ignore that $20 trillion debt.

This graphic does align with the party platform btw.

[Adam White]

It's no less accurate than the left-biased graphic above. Tuition "free" education? Sure, nobody pays for it, ignore that $20 trillion debt.

This graphic does align with the party platform btw.

Ronald Reagan gave it to Californians, coredumped. Its his one great legacy as governor.  If California can figure it out, it can be done.

I believe free tuition pre-dated Reagan (it started with the founding of the university system) and I think Reagan actually tried to raise fees. As I understand it, students who attend a state school these days have to pay tuition. They used to just call it something else. But it's not free anymore.

I think the issue Coredumped raised is the idea of having free tuition when there is a massive debt. He may be opposed to free tuition, full stop (it is 'big government' after all). I support free tuition and think it can work - but it clearly cannot work without spending cuts elsewhere and increase taxation (or closing tax loopholes).

[finehoe]

Both those platforms are bigger government. The only party for smaller government and less military intervention is the LP.
Democrats say less military, but Obama is America's war president, Republicans say smaller government, but they're always in our personal lives.

So continue to vote Libertarian, which I'm sure will result in the change you desire.

[Adam White]

Both those platforms are bigger government. The only party for smaller government and less military intervention is the LP.
Democrats say less military, but Obama is America's war president, Republicans say smaller government, but they're always in our personal lives.

So continue to vote Libertarian, which I'm sure will result in the change you desire.

Voting Democratic or Republic (or not Libertarian) won't result in the change he desires, either. So, if that's the metric you use to determine whether one is 'wasting' a vote, then clearly voting Democratic or Republican is equally a waste of a vote.

[coredumped]

Both those platforms are bigger government. The only party for smaller government and less military intervention is the LP.
Democrats say less military, but Obama is America's war president, Republicans say smaller government, but they're always in our personal lives.

So continue to vote Libertarian, which I'm sure will result in the change you desire.

Thanks for your permission to vote however I like. My votes are my own. In the past year I've voted for all 3 parties. I vote for the candidate, not the party.

Adam, your right, tax payer tuition could happen, but not as long as Democrats and Republicans keep us in these endless wars.

[Adam White]

Both those platforms are bigger government. The only party for smaller government and less military intervention is the LP.
Democrats say less military, but Obama is America's war president, Republicans say smaller government, but they're always in our personal lives.

So continue to vote Libertarian, which I'm sure will result in the change you desire.

Voting Democratic or Republic (or not Libertarian) won't result in the change he desires, either. So, if that's the metric you use to determine whether one is 'wasting' a vote, then clearly voting Democratic or Republican is equally a waste of a vote.

Thanks for that! My votes are my own. In the past year I've voted for all 3 parties. I vote for the candidate, not the party.

Adam, your right, tax payer tuition could happen, but not as long as Democrats and Republicans keep us in these endless wars.

My issue is that I don't like being lectured about 'wasting' my vote. We all have personal reasons for how we vote.

Note: I am not saying Finehoe or Stephen are 'lecturing' me - this is a forum and I appreciate the debate!

[finehoe]

I purposely phrased my question to elicit a more abstract answer.  Let me try again.

If your vote is based on belief and principle, and you know that a third-party candidate has never won a presidential election in the US, and you know the probability of one doing so in the future is slim-to-none, what do you gain by casting a vote that results in the candidate/party that least reflects those beliefs and principles winning?

Please answer with out using the words "Trump" "Hillary" "Democrat" or "Republican". 

[fsquid]

I did watch the town hall last night.  Frankly, I was much more impressed by Weld than Johnson.  I also didn't know that W Bush wanted him as his VP before the anti-abortion people shot it down.

[Houseboat Mike]

I purposely phrased my question to elicit a more abstract answer.  Let me try again.

If your vote is based on belief and principle, and you know that a third-party candidate has never won a presidential election in the US, and you know the probability of one doing so in the future is slim-to-none, what do you gain by casting a vote that results in the candidate/party that least reflects those beliefs and principles winning?

Please answer with out using the words "Trump" "Hillary" "Democrat" or "Republican". 

Actually, a third party candidate has won the presidency.... fella by the name of Abraham Lincoln  . There have been several parties throughout the years, it hasnt always been Democrat and Republican.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_in_the_United_States

[finehoe]

Actually, a third party candidate has won the presidency.... fella by the name of Abraham Lincoln  . There have been several parties throughout the years, it hasnt always been Democrat and Republican.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_in_the_United_States

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  I'm talking about contemporary politics.  Even your link begins with the sentence "Throughout most of its history, American politics have been dominated by a two-party system."

No one wants to answer the question, because there is no good answer.

[Adam White]

I purposely phrased my question to elicit a more abstract answer.  Let me try again.

If your vote is based on belief and principle, and you know that a third-party candidate has never won a presidential election in the US, and you know the probability of one doing so in the future is slim-to-none, what do you gain by casting a vote that results in the candidate/party that least reflects those beliefs and principles winning?

Please answer with out using the words "Trump" "Hillary" "Democrat" or "Republican". 

I'll answer your question - though I assumed you were addressing Coredumped, as I've answered this and I've not been mentioning Clinton or Trump in this thread (well, one Hillary Clinton reference to people claiming Stein is stealing votes that are rightly hers and one reference to how I voted for Bill Clinton in 1992).

Anyway...

I would answer your question as follows: you are making a false assumption that one candidate is closer to my views than the other. I posted the following link earlier. You will see where the two main party candidates fit on the chart - and where others have in the past (look at the other charts listed in the left margin):

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

As I said, it's a wash. One candidate is more authoritarian, but slightly less right wing, the other is further to the right, yet slightly more libertarian.

Also, I will rephrase what I said earlier, in plainer language: if you believe in one central ideal - such as the elimination of the capitalist mode of production and its replacement with socialism - you wouldn't see any appreciable difference between the two capitalist candidates representing the two largest (and extremely capitalist) parties.

I can't provide much more of an answer as you're requested I not mention the candidates in the 2016 election.