Soccer Thread

[bencrix]

Carrick was brilliant in his day, though.

i.e. when he was at Spurs!

(Speaking of, was happy to hear they made Wanyama official today).

[TimmyB]

So, Sky are saying that Klinsman is the front runner for the Southampton job.  What are you hearing over there, Adam?

[bencrix]

Rough stretch of days for England. Exiting the European Union and the European Championships. Crisis of confidence all the way around?

Hopefully (not likely) the English press lays off these mostly young players, who I think are capable bouncing back and improving in time for WC'18.

That said, I think its time for Hart & Rooney to make way. Both were poor and were supposed to be providing leadership. Astonishingly Rooney reminded me of Michael Bradley, w/ his frequent turnovers and inability to quickly advance play. At least Rooney has the excuse of being played egregiously out of position. It's not really fair to expect him to transform into Pirlo, just because we have fond memories of him as an imperious striker.

[Adam White]

I've been away - I'm in Jax at the moment. I didn't get to see any of the games, other than the Ireland - France game.

I've not heard anything about Klinsmann for Southampton - though it would be great if he got the job.

As far as England is concerned - it's a shame, but I'm having a hard time feeling too bad right now. Something about a bunch of racist little Englanders crying into their pints makes me happy.

All that aside, the problem clearly isn't lack of talent. It's something else. I am not sure what it is - there are so many opinions. But England haven't managed anything since winning the World Cup in 1966.

[Bridges]

Well, when you have 5 Spurs in your starting XI, you can't be too surprised when you come up short...HEY-O!

That being said, the ommision of Drinkwater for Wilshere was the first sign of trouble.  Should have had Rashford and Vardy on to start, or at least bring Rashford on at the 60.  He had more dribbles into the box in his 5 minutes than anyone else had all match.  Rewatched it again last night, and there are multiple times where someone gets the ball around 40 yards out and looked clueless as everyone else stood around. 

[TimmyB]

Well, when you have 5 Spurs in your starting XI, you can't be too surprised when you come up short...HEY-O!

That being said, the ommision of Drinkwater for Wilshere was the first sign of trouble.  Should have had Rashford and Vardy on to start, or at least bring Rashford on at the 60.  He had more dribbles into the box in his 5 minutes than anyone else had all match.  Rewatched it again last night, and there are multiple times where someone gets the ball around 40 yards out and looked clueless as everyone else stood around.

I was reading that some had given their MOM for England to Rashford, simply because of that reason.

[bencrix]

Well, when you have 5 Spurs in your starting XI, you can't be too surprised when you come up short...HEY-O!

Actually a somewhat (not really) legitimate charge that these guys will have to respond to in some way. Spurs supporters like me are concerned what effect this will have on our upcoming season, which is otherwise full of promise.

I think the hope is that Pochettino is a much better manager than Roy - from conditioning, to man management, to tactics, etc. - and that Poch will continue to get the kinds of performances out these players that justified their inclusion on the national team in the first place.

[bencrix]

So Portugal finally plays some football and is in the finals. Amazing - in past tournaments they wouldn't have made it out of the group stage.

[TimmyB]

They are the least deserving team to be in the finals of ANY tournament, based on their play at this year's Euro's.  Listening to Ronaldo, calling out Iceland's tactics, while Portugal has played about 30 minutes of football total in five matches makes me nauseous.  I normally couldn't care which team wins or loses, but I hope France squashes them.

[Adam White]

The English top flight was by far the most heavily-represented domestic division at the tournament, with 106 of the 552 players who travelled to France currently plying their trade there.
And a survey conducted by Press Association Sport found that Mauricio Pochettino's Spurs team bore the brunt of that, clocking up a total of 3,544 minutes; over 900 more than the side with the second-most minutes played - north London rivals Arsenal.



http://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/premier-league/2016-2017/tottenham-s-players-rack-up-most-euro-2016-minutes-of-any-premier-league-club_sto5683321/story.shtml

[bencrix]

That is an interesting stat, given:

1) how poorly England has done in these tournaments,
2) how (relatively) poorly EPL teams have done in european competition (UCL & UEL),
3) how poor some (certainly, not all) rate Euro 2016 overall as a competition.

I wonder if there is any relationship btw. the high representation of EPL players and these observations?

[Adam White]

That is an interesting stat, given:

1) how poorly England has done in these tournaments,
2) how (relatively) poorly EPL teams have done in european competition (UCL & UEL),
3) how poor some (certainly, not all) rate Euro 2016 overall as a competition.

I wonder if there is any relationship btw. the high representation of EPL players and these observations?

If I were to hazard a guess:

1) The PL has a higher percentage of foreign-born players than most (if not all) other leagues - so it's little surprise that the best ones aren't English.

2) I would expect PL teams to fare better in European competitions than they do. I can only assume that at least some of it is down to the fact that some teams are more than the sum of their parts (Leicester is the obvious example). Maybe a team of 11 superstars isn't as good as it should be. That said, there are a number of very good English teams and only one or two (or maybe three) good teams in each of the top European leagues. One of the somewhat tired (but kind of true) things said about the PL is that it has more depth than any of the other top leagues.

3) International football is terrible, though this particular tournament was worse than others in recent memory. I think. But then again, all that it really means is that PL players featured the most - not necessarily did the best.

I guess what it really comes down to is that the PL has the most money of any league and that money is distributed more evenly across the 20 teams in the competition. So they buy more foreign players. And the top leagues are all in Europe.

[fsquid]

I still think one of the biggest reasons the English club teams don't fare well in Europe is because they don't take a winter break and they play two cup competitions.

[bencrix]

I agree. It's one factor that may play a part in England's struggles, EPL's stuggles in UCL/UEL & the poor quality of EURO2016.

Supporting evidence: Belgium's flameouts at WC2014 & EURO2016 - nearly 100% of their players play in the EPL.

Of course, it doesn't explain everything, but I do think the FA needs to do something about the # of fixtures.

For example, with the disclaimer that I am not English and do not understand the heritage value, why not slim down (or eliminate) the League Cup?

[TimmyB]

...I guess what it really comes down to is that the PL has the most money of any league and that money is distributed more evenly across the 20 teams in the competition. So they buy more foreign players. And the top leagues are all in Europe.

The EPL is very much like the NFL, in that there is one organization that gets all the media money and then, distributes that in a relatively even way to the 20 clubs.  La Liga, on the other hand, is like MLB, where the Yankees get a gazillion dollars from their own TV contract, while the small market teams get jack-****.  I have heard that this is being changed, but not sure if it is or not.  This is why it is basically a two- or three-team race each year.

That said, you are spot-on about buying more foreign players, and that will be exacerbated with this new ginormous tv contract in the upcoming year.  It is why you are seeing average players going for £50-60 M, and big names like Pogba are having 100+M attached to their heads.

I also believe the others are correct about burnout.  I was joking with my wife that I won't know what to do now that the Copa America and Euro 2016 are done.  There won't be any football until the pre-season starts.  This Saturday.