Dow down 600 points...think its gonna get worse...

[apvbguy]

RSG.   Just keep hanging onto the same disproven arguments that you have been spouting.

Maybe in between telling everyone how wealthy you are, how smart you are, and how much more money you are making than everyone else on this board you are, the magical crisis that you have spent the past 18 months proving didnt exist will simply go away.

While you might think that other people will pretend that you are too stupid to realize that a 'sub prime' loan is one which doesnt qualify for Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, I think that we are past such delusions.  Go ahead and deliberately claim the opposite of the truth if you like.  See what it makes you.

the more you post the more foolish you make yourself appear, it was fannie and fredie who WERE BUYING these sub prime loans from the mortgage originators, therein lies the root of the problems we are having.
Please try and have a grasp of the topics you are trying to pontificate about, because on this subject you appear to be absolutely clueless

[apvbguy]

apvbguy.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Perhaps you should wait till the freshman year of economics before you weigh in any further.

the oracle has spoken, too bad he and the wizard of oz are one and the same.
You really need to get your facts from credible sources, here's a hint, kos, huff post ,moveon and the NY Times are not credible sources

[Doctor_K]

the oracle has spoken, too bad he and the wizard of oz are one and the same.
You really need to get your facts from credible sources, here's a hint, kos, huff post ,moveon and the NY Times are not credible sources

Then for the love of all that's holy, start counter-posting with cited sources to back up your position and quit berating and bashing those who are trying to keep a (mostly) civil discourse.  I've made it a point to avoid getting pulled into the morass that these threads usually descend into but damn pal, I gotta tell you, debate already - stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

In other news, the Dow is up 185 and change, or approximately 1.75% as of 10:00 this morning.  Any takers on an almost total-recovery in the Dow by week's end?  It's done that a lot over the last several months that there's been such a headline-making, one-day decline.

[apvbguy]

the oracle has spoken, too bad he and the wizard of oz are one and the same.
You really need to get your facts from credible sources, here's a hint, kos, huff post ,moveon and the NY Times are not credible sources

Then for the love of all that's holy, start counter-posting with cited sources to back up your position and quit berating and bashing those who are trying to keep a (mostly) civil discourse.  I've made it a point to avoid getting pulled into the morass that these threads usually descend into but damn pal, I gotta tell you, debate already - stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

I have noted the facts of the matter and others have filled in the blanks, bottom line is that the guy is dead wrong and his spreading of this kind of misinformation is very dangerous because some naive people might actually take his words as being factual. Bottom line Wachovia has not failed and people who have accounts there as of this moment can access their funds. And anyone who says differently is just plain wrong.
Sorry if the verbiage is too strong for you but that guy is out of control, he is posting complete nonsense and someone needs to balance out his garbage facts with truthful, accurate facts and info.

[Doctor_K]

your a lot more optimistic than I am.

The long term structural issues are still screwed, I think.

So like, sub-10,000 for the mid-term?  Possibly.  

More than likely the Fed will look to cut rates again, too.  Is it still a bad idea for dollar strength to do so, a la the argument against cutting rates the last go-around?

[Doctor_K]

I have noted the facts of the matter and others have filled in the blanks, bottom line is that the guy is dead wrong and his spreading of this kind of misinformation is very dangerous because some naive people might actually take his words as being factual. Bottom line Wachovia has not failed and people who have accounts there as of this moment can access their funds. And anyone who says differently is just plain wrong.
Sorry if the verbiage is too strong for you but that guy is out of control, he is posting complete nonsense and someone needs to balance out his garbage facts with truthful, accurate facts and info.

The FDIC insisted that Wachovia did not fail, so that I believe I can agree with you on.  I think everyone (especially me!) could use a vocabulary lesson as to what a bank failure truly entails, rather than just a takeover.

[apvbguy]

the oracle has spoken, too bad he and the wizard of oz are one and the same.
You really need to get your facts from credible sources, here's a hint, kos, huff post ,moveon and the NY Times are not credible sources

Then for the love of all that's holy, start counter-posting with cited sources to back up your position and quit berating and bashing those who are trying to keep a (mostly) civil discourse.  I've made it a point to avoid getting pulled into the morass that these threads usually descend into but damn pal, I gotta tell you, debate already - stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

In other news, the Dow is up 185 and change, or approximately 1.75% as of 10:00 this morning.  Any takers on an almost total-recovery in the Dow by week's end?

your a lot more optimistic than I am.

The long term structural issues are still screwed, I think.

you are right, there are still major problems that need to be addressed but the reality is that the sky still hasn't fallen, and as long as people don't disseminate false rumors and keep their heads on straight, things will work out. It might be a painful road to get any semblance of normalcy back but once the patient swallows the medicine the patient will begin to recover

[apvbguy]

Funny, this is exactly the same type of nonsense that was used to claim that Wachovia was a safe bet and sound as a pound only 2 months ago.

My how times change.

No matter APVBGuy, this type of nonsense always gets proven wrong by time.

Ask your pal, RSG.

a completely vapid and useless response, a real man would offer some mea culpas and come back to fight another day, but you can only offer insults and innuendo.
I really feel sorry for someone who is so bitter and clueless.

[apvbguy]

the market is probably realistically valued at about 6thousand.

Thats why even los federales are bandying about this whole one third loss figure so frequently.

Its probably destined to shrink back to its real value no matter what we do.

market prognosticators are like butt holes, we all have them and they all stink

[Driven1]

I suppose no one has heard that people are betting against Lehman Bros as well?

"and no one has heard"...exactly - it is these precise RUMORS that the SEC is cracking down on.  seriously...google "sec, rumors, lehman" and see what you find.  they are going criminally after the people that are starting these rumors concerning the financial institutions.

and you posted this why?

[Doctor_K]

I love this following quote:  I suppose now that the major banks have failed and there are gas lines and rationing going on all over the southeast, DowntownDweller has changed her mind.

With due respect, and not to minimize the whole economics issue, but I wonder how much more the gas lines in Atlanta have to do with refineries/infrastructure still coming back online from Hurricane Ike than the market situation.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/09/27/gas_lines_atlanta.html
Weeks after Hurricane Ike shut down Gulf Coast refineries and dried up interstate pipelines, the shortage continued, hitting hardest in Atlanta, Nashville, and the Carolinas, including the Charlotte area and the mountain towns to the west. Many across the Southeast were keeping their cars in the garage this weekend, forced to cancel plans for fear they’ll run out of gas.

[apvbguy]

I love this following quote:  I suppose now that the major banks have failed and there are gas lines and rationing going on all over the southeast, DowntownDweller has changed her mind.  Or maybe she still thinks the most important thing we need to worry about is starting a war with Iran?

a few non sequiturs always make you look good, got any other red herrings to add to the mix?

[Downtown Dweller]

Stephen, not all major banks have failed. I am still doing very well as I bought low and my stock prices are still double what I paid for them. I was prudent. I still have not seen the end of the world, I can get gas (just got some this morning), I went grocery shopping last night and they had everything I needed, and I juts got paid today. I have a solid loan (15yr fixed) with more than 30% equity in my house, a good job with a strong company that isn't going anywhere, actually is growing, because like me they are conservative. I would also like to point out, Wachovia did not "fail" they were purchased.

I am not heading for the hills yet (I will save that for after the elections), or stock piling food or gas 

btw, I didn't say we would start a war with Iran, I said Iran would START world war III. I don't mind if you disagree with me, but please get my quotes correct 

[RiversideGator]

It's hardly censorship. River has been free to make a fool of himself for quite some time now. For his own sake it would probably be best if he stopped. I know others will disagree because they enjoy watching him flounder around, but its getting embarrassing.

What a joke.  Perhaps I underestimated the extent of the problem but I am aware of it now, am discussing the root causes and possible solutions.  I dont recall you posting much of anything except for the occasional sarcastic non sequitur.  Perhaps in the future I can borrow your crystal ball which has served you so well. 

Oh and so much for the spirit of civility.  I guess this only applies to people with whom the liberals agree.

[Downtown Dweller]

You have that right, this will be one for the books, but I think the downturn is artificial (I could be wrong) but the accounting rules force corporations to lower assets based on a downturn in the market, all their assests. This is what Paulson, the crook, was betting on by wanting that 700 billion dollars to play the stockmarket with. Maybe it was all a secret ploy to make money on the market and force SS should also play in that sandbox!


Now I must go back to my cave of work...conservative companies that make money expect their people to work all day